Would that it were so simple.
My preferred ending is where all three are alive to cause chaos again once Corypheus is dead, because Orlais is trash and I don't want to see them better off.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Vivienne slightly disapproves.
Edited by TheLovecraftian on Jun 14th 2019 at 11:04:55 AM
Oh, bother.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I hate all three of them too, but I figure that a stable empire that's not run by a warmonger is the best possible case for the world. So Gaspard always gets the chopping block.
Would that it were so simple.
Gaspard is like the only Orlesian nobleman who isn't a complete ponce. I try to save him, for that alone. And Celene is trash, having something alive to cause problems for her without being free to act on their own just seems like the best option.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
It is! I just gave up at some point and micromanage the lot when I need to. Imshael was one of those fights where I needed them to work a bit more! Still dead and rotting though. And I keep my castle! Time to hunt down dragons. Though I have no reason to.
Hmmmmm, no Orlais. I think I can live with that. I'm going to vote for Nevarra next, cause at least they don't burn the dead! Also, Cassandra came out of there so they are clearly the best nation. The world needs more Cassandra. 
Oh, bother.
That's pretty much the downside of the most ostensibly "happy" outcome — it's giving her a happy ending. And she really doesn't deserve one.
Edited by M84 on Jun 14th 2019 at 10:14:00 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
it's a living
Not burning the dead is a reason to vote for Nevarra...?
They say Gaspard is less of a ponce in-universe, but he didn't really seem that much less poncey than other Orlesians we've met. Doesn't help that he's wearing Duke Prosper's clothes, of course.
a
Is there a problem with cremation, cultural or otherwise, that I'm not getting?
Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
Oh, bother.
Yeah, seeing as how my own relatives have been cremated...I really don't appreciate the insinuation that cremation is something shameful.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Nobody said she's significantly worse. I just don't think she is fit to rule without making things worse. Her relationship with Celene is awful and Briala decides to exacerbate the war at the end of The Masked Empire because she thinks that will somehow make things better? Horrible idea. Leaving her with Gaspard also begs for further trouble.
Shameful? You read too much into that. Where I come from, we don't burn our dead. It's funny to see cremation seems to be the preferred method of laying the dead to rest in any fantasy counterpart of the Christian Church. Many other sects do not burn the dead.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
it's a living
Well, it's because they're in the habit of coming back as zombies and skeletons otherwise, that's all.
Queen of Good Things, Honest
To me, the main difference between burial and cremation is that the latter doesn't require huge amounts of habitable land to be wasted.
On the other hand, burial is more festive. During an earthquake, coffins turn into underground maracas. So there's that.
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
a
You jerk, I snorted tea up my nose reading that second paragraph.
And yeah, in a world where corpses have a disturbing tendency to come back as zombies and/or possessed by spirits, it’d be more surprising if cremation wasn’t the preferred method of body disposal in Thedas.
Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
If you liked the dark and gritty elements of Origins and DA 2 then Inquisition was a nasty turnaround.
The book felt like Origins with all its Black-and-Gray Morality with Briala being the Gray.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Origins had black and gray morality? News to me.
Compared to the extreme High Fantasy of Inquisition? Yeah, it did.
I struggle to think of any important morally black characters in Origins. To this day people debate whether Loghain was right or how morally at fault he was, so whether you agree or not he's certainly not 'black.' Flemeth is nothing but helpful until you attack her in her own home. Bhelen is a reformist tyrant, Harrowmont is an honorable bigot. The werewolves are lashing out at unfair treatment while the elves have no clue they're even intelligent apart from Zathrian, who is A. sympathetic and B. not entirely responsible for his actions given that his magic has locked in his emotional state to the lowest point in his life. Demons are Blue-and-Orange Morality. The Gray Wardens didn't have any of their morally shifty sides back then either.
That leaves, what, the dragon cult? The mindless darkspawn that have no characterization whatsoever beyond rampaging monsters?
If anything, Inquisition is closer to black and gray morality because you have actual genuine villains like Corypheus, some Orlesian nobility and a much less morally clean look at the Gray Wardens.
Edit: Oh, I forgot Howe. There, an unambiguous villain in Origins.
Edited by Arha on Jun 14th 2019 at 11:06:30 AM
Origins is more of a Gray and Grey morality case. Outside of, as mentioned, Howe, who's an easy unambiguous bad guy for the player to hate, everybody's an arguable shade of grey.
Well you should probably go ahead and remove Origins from the trope page then, yeah?
- Howe
- Branka
- Urthemiel (Archdemon) and Darkspawn in general
- The Arl's Son from the Elf Prologue
- The Tevinter slavers
- Uldred
- The Dragon Cult
- The Blood Mages
- Marjolaine
- Jarvia and Beraht
There's no end of irredeemable scumbags in the game.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 14th 2019 at 9:17:26 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
How many of those actually matter? And I'd argue not all of those are even morally black. Using an example of someone really easy to hate, Branka is a genuine patriot who is trying to keep her people save from an unstoppable menace that the rest of the world usually ignores completely. She obviously went way too far and most people agree she needs to be stopped/killed, but that's because she went insane. As for ones who don't have that sympathetic side to them, they're often trivial characters or basically just ordinary criminals.
It's not Black-and-Gray Morality because everyone that's important to the narrative is some shade of gray or something like a demon/darkspawn that has absolutely no moral agency and frequently no characterization to go along with it. You cited Urthemiel as a totally evil figure, but he's the god of beauty, not the god of mass murder. He didn't choose to become a monster. Probably. The darkspawn origins are still pretty fuzzy but I really doubt the old gods meant for this to go down the way it did. Who wants to be a rotting monster?
^^ Okay, I did.
Edited by Arha on Jun 14th 2019 at 11:24:33 AM
Not really a lord of anything
Honestly I find myself questioning exactly how "morally gray" Origins is. It had a lot of endings with options that were very clearly the best for everyone involved and options that were clearly for assholes. There are no downsides to curing the werewolves, there are no downsides to killing the demons in the mage tower, there are no downsides to getting the lyrium to send a mage inside and kill the desire demon inside Connor, and there are no downsides to doing the ritual with Morrigan. The only reason Bhelen is a hard choice is because it's not immediately obvious that he is the correct choice unless you're paying attention and while hardening Alistair isn't obvious as the best option, it's still there.
Edited by LordVatek on Jun 14th 2019 at 12:24:46 PM
This song needs more love.
The tactical downgrade from the second game, of all things, is really inexcusable.