Final Fantasy VII Remake Spoiler Thread

You'd think I'd be more irritated by the alternate timeline shenanigans.

And while I am annoyed by it a bit...time shenanigans have been a part of the FF series since the very first game.

So I can't exactly pretend that this is something that would never have happened in the remake.

Just to make sure my stance is clear; my interpretation of what happened is that by destroying the Arbiters of Fate the heroes ended up retroactively removing them and undoing all the deaths they caused. Hence Biggs' confirmed survival and Jesse's suspected one. Zack's survival doesn't automatically make the plot impossible; we don't know how long Cloud was in Midgar in the original timeline before Tifa found him, hence my theory/joke about Cloud getting separated from Zack and wandering off while Zack looks for him all over Midgar.

To me, it would be a massive copout if after putting the scenes of Biggs and Zack surviving at the end of the game only for Part 2 to go "You thought that happened? lol nope, different universe." It would make fighting the arbiters of fate pointless by stripping away the confirmation that you managed to fight fate and win. Hell it'd make the Arbiters themselves pointless as an addition to the story.

But the biggest reason why I can't get behind it is that there's nothing in part 1 to setup that alternate universes are a thing, and to the best of my knowledge there's nothing in the greater franchise relating to it either. But there has been time travel shenanigans and altering the past.

Edited by Shaoken on Jun 8th 2020 at 8:56:52 PM

"Future" being the keyword. She says nothing about changing what's already happened.

Also, you don't feel that having Zack survive but the Sector 7 plate still drop to be a bigger cop-out? That seems like something the crew would want more.

Again, the contexts of the deaths are completely different. Zack's been dead a long time, Biggs and Jessie were not. And seeing as Wedge survived before the Whispers were defeated, those two easily could have, too. There's no redo of the plate scene where Biggs survives like there is for Zack, the implication I got from that is that he never actually died in the first place, same as Wedge, who had a piece of the plate fall right on top of him and all it did was give him a few scratches.

How is that not a cop-out? Zack — whose very existence is the biggest plot twist in the original game, whose death is a pivotal moment in the original continuity — survives, and it amounts to nothing?

The entire final battle takes place in an alternate universe. And why would there be any setup? Assuming there is an alternate timeline, the defeat of the Whispers is what caused it. There was no alternate universe before that.

Also, XIII-2 is all about alternate universes. And no, they're not caused just by time travel, they're caused by weird spatial anomalies, and they still exist after those anomalies are resolved. From what I gather, XIV has alternate universes as well.

Hell, Remake itself is an alternate timeline to the original FF7 + Compilation, and there's no denying that, the entire ending revolves around the idea.

Edited by Primis on Jun 8th 2020 at 11:05:51 AM

I feel like compared to the clump of weeds that is Kingdom Hearts post-DDD, the remake seems to be pretty easy to understand as far as time travel bullshit is concerned.

but the time travel in kh is easy to understand. its a loop. you do things because you did them and will do them. when you break the loop you get yeeted out of the universe. but as long as you keep the loops stable you get to stay

That covers time travel via heart shenanigans. Theres also magic time travel that Merlin and Pete can do that explicitly break those rules. Theres also the sci-fi time travel used to yeet Maleficent's heart from the past into the beginning of KHII.

Edited by Zeromaeus on Jun 8th 2020 at 10:42:16 AM

merlin and pete have fuck you im disney magic also they were in 2. malificent is basically doing what ansem did but instead of waiting the long way for decades as a creepy cloak on a beach, she is just jumping but its heart based time travel just skipping stuff

Time travel! <angry fist shake>

I'm also going to point out that the only time Sephiroth has had black feathers before now was in Advent Children. I think.

Edited by Zeromaeus on Jun 9th 2020 at 4:47:51 AM

He never actually had only one wing either in the original game.

He had seven, I think.

The other six don't count.

To this day I'm still not sure why the theme song is named "One-Winged Angel". Maybe it makes more sense in Japanese.

The Final Fantasy wiki offers this possible explanation:

Also, apparently the Psycho theme was a major inspiration for the song.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jun 9th 2020 at 8:58:20 AM

I'm slightly dissapointed that, in a game where the main villain is named "Sephiroth", at no point you ever get any weapon, summon or spell called "Qliphoth"

Heh, and I was just browsing the Devil May Cry thread too.

> To this day I'm still not sure why the theme song is named "One-Winged Angel". Maybe it makes more sense in Japanese.

Its simple,Angels have two wings,Sepy is mostly certainly NOT an angel,he is trying to give the impression of one but he comes across instead as a demon with warped ideas,believing instead that he's somehow God

So, he's a mad god trying to appear like an angel,and he's not fooling anyone

Edited by Ultimatum on Jun 9th 2020 at 3:09:26 PM

But angels in the Bible don't always just have two wings. Safer Sephiroth vaguely resembles the Seraphim, for example.

Edited by M84 on Jun 9th 2020 at 11:13:01 PM

That's what I figured.

You know, that actually makes a lot of sense, but it's always reminded me of the Jaws theme.

Edited by Primis on Jun 9th 2020 at 9:47:44 AM

Isn't "Safer Sephiroth" a bad translation of "Seraph Sephiroth"? It would certainly explain the resemblance.

Sephiroth's portrayal in the og VII was explicitly inspired by the movie Jaws.

....I can't believe it's been more than twenty years and I never caught that.

Huh, what do you know.

Well now I have trouble taking Sephiroth seriously with the mental image of a shark in a woman's dress and Sephiroth's wig holding a long-ass knife.

He's certainly based on a seraph, but his name doesn't seem to be Seraph Sephiroth. It's written in Japanese as seefa, not serafu. It's possible it's actually supposed to be Sefer Sephiroth. Sefer/Sepher is Hebrew for "book". Sephirot literally means "enumeration", so "Sefer Sephiroth" would be "Book of Enumeration". A theory I've seen is that it may be referencing the Book of Numbers, which is the English and Greek name for the fourth book of the Torah, which involves the Israelites reaching God's promised land.

On a side, we do know for sure Sephiroth's previous form Bizarro Sephiroth is a mistranslation. It's supposed to be Rebirth Sephiroth, but the translator(s) misread ribaasu as "Reverse", and then changed that to "Bizarro".