The General Star Wars Thread

Naboo in the pre-releases for TPM was built up as a major Shipwright and pilot mecca of the Galaxy with its Royal Academy being the predecessor of the Imperial Pilot Academy

A Former Fleet powerhouse that over the golden age had given up its militant past due to the centuries of peace 'There is a reason why the Gungans give the Naboo a wide berth'

Hilariously its the inverse of Alderaan

Alderaan had been on of the staunchest more proactive worlds in the wars of the past but the sheer horrors of the Clone wars had them give up their usually stockpile of weapons Cept not Really they were just giving them out to everybody else! Alderaan still fighting the good fight just in alternate ways. Its No wonder Tarkin blew it up on principle... and gawd did it backfire

Yeah, Palpatine's biggest enemy was ironically not Yoda or Anakin Skywalker or even Luke, it was Padmé Amidala. She's the one who came closest to derailing the Clone Wars.

So it's fitting that she ended up siring Luke Skywalker who ultimately derails the Emperor's plans in ROTJ simply by saying "Never" to his face.

We have more info about the characters in Star Wars: The High Republic.

Edited by alliterator on Apr 2nd 2020 at 7:20:14 AM

I tend to argue the core philosophic values of Star Wars are that:

1. Good and evil exist as actual forces in the universe.

2. These two forces are, necessarily, in conflict.

3. The conflicts of mortals tend to be merely fronts for this cosmic struggle of good and evil as fundamental forces.

Essentially, in this worldview, things like flags, ideologies, and the like are actually more like clothes that we put on the concepts of good and evil, or rationalizations for whichever side we serve. They're flavors du jour of the same eternal war. We're simply champions of the day of this conflict.

To demonstrate how this worldview would look applied to the real world, it would argue that Jefferson Davis was an agent of evil as a concept (whether he realized it or not), furthering evil by protecting slavery. When The Confederacy was defeated, evil-as-a-concept simply shed its clothes and come back later with new ones, such as in the form of Nazism or the Taliban. Evil isn't one big happy family, necessarily, but they are all pawns of the same force and are-at heart-competing to be the best pawns.

This tends to make pacifism as a viewpoint "odd" in Star Wars, because good and evil are intrinsically in conflict in this worldview. Similarly, a conflict like the clone wars, while not running counter to it, is unintuitive to this worldview.

That isn't to say that pacifism has no place in this worldview, and in fact it is often praised in Star Wars, though it is a mild "inconvenience". Though, admittedly, it does help that, again, all evil serves the same master in the end. Someone falling into He Who Fights Monsters has merely shifted from fighting for good to joining evil's regularly scheduled in-fighting.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"

pacifism is weird because they are not two side with good and bad people but more often is a goody two shoes fighting spaces facist and when you put facist, war become not only necesary but justify, it turn into a rightious war were you can feel good of defeating the enemy.

There is a reason people said WWII is the only war were US can be as MERICA as it wants.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Pacifism isn't strange in the universe of Star Wars any more than it is in Real Life. Peace is desirable but one must understand that there will always be people seek to take more than they give, which is the nature of the Dark Side.

In the words of Asura from Asura's Wratch.

"There is always some fool who wants to rule the world! Always forcing others to do what they cannot do for themselves!"

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Okey I LIKE those robes, white and golden they look cool and finally the jedi look important, instead of this permanently grey asthetic that have being imprinted over and over.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

The fundamental flaw with pacifism is that it assumes there is always an option to opt out of any given conflict. It's built on the idea that it takes two people to start a fight.

This is centrist bullshit. It only takes one.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

And even if you are perfectly willing to let yourself slaughtered for your principles, don't drag others into it as well.

The village elder I mentioned earlier ended up being called out on his stubbornness by the younger villagers who then proceeded to join their defense against the Separatist army who tried to wipe them out as part of a bio-weapon test.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Apr 2nd 2020 at 6:25:14 PM

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.

Ehhhh what? it take one to try to star a conflict and take two to make a fight.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

It’s still a fight if you’re not fighting back?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

I'm reminded of this arc in One Piece that involves a deposed royal family being assisted by the protagonists in regaining their kingdom & their was a bizarre pacifist message with them. Despite the show resolving every conflict with violence ya got these characters attempting a nonviolent message.

You got a king who refuses to kill people no matter the situation & when about to be crushed by a giant behemoth mocking his weakness & overall failing his people he declares that he will stay morally resolute to his principles of nonviolence even as he & his subjects are about to die a horrible & that he is a good king for it. He is then saved by a protagonist who proceeds to cut down said behemoth all the while self-praising how much of a violent badass he is. Fuck the king was basically doing the opposite of what said. He wound up dragging others into his own beliefs despite the threat of their lives.

Then his granddaughter the princess who spent the entire arc seeking revenge on the murderer of her mother only to break down crying to break down crying on her knees when she finally confronts him. To the point she's begging for help where she's then rescued by her daddy who spouts that he will never his little baby girl (despite being a grown woman) be tainted by violence for that is the path only men like him should go through.

Again bizarre pacifist messages suddenly thrown into a series that has never done such a thing before for this specific group of characters & it was just fucking before.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 2nd 2020 at 9:52:07 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

The problem with all of these things is that they fundamentally misunderstand what pacifism is. Pacifism isn't just the refusal to fight — pacifism is nonviolent resistance. It involves civil disobedience, protests, and so on and, because of that, it's often use to kickstart social change. This is why most pacifists aren't the ones in charge — the ones in charge are usually the violent ones and have all the power, so fighting against them wouldn't do anything. Instead, nonviolent means are used in order to force the ones in charge to change the system.

The most prominent examples of pacifism and nonviolent resistance are Martin Luthor King Jr and Gandhi.

Generally, when pacifists do enter into wars, they get jobs that don't require them to take up arms — i.e. medical jobs, hospital work, or other things that didn't require actual fighting. A pacifist isn't going to walk into a battlefield and just not do anything because that would be stupid.

Except non-violent resistance is simply not feasible in all cases - it requires you opponent to actually have any scruples.

Gandhi is also the guy who told European Jews that they "should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife". And that was after the Holocaust had become widely known.

And the series does feature non-violent resistance - it still doesn't work because the other side doesn't have any scruples to trample on the non-violent.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Apr 2nd 2020 at 7:12:15 PM

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.

I never said it was.

Not quite — it requires your opponent to care about how they are perceived, too. The British in India didn't have any scruples, but they didn't want Gandhi to die because he was popular and it would give them more bad press. It also requires the ability for the country to change leaders to leaders that are more sympathetic to the cause, like the US did. Pacifism requires popularity, is what I'm saying.

I think you have taken that quote out of context — Gandhi considered "collective suicide" to be a form of protest and called it "heroism." He was basically saying that the Jews should have killed themselves publicly in order to cause a public outcry rather than have the Nazis kill them secretly. Still not really a good idea, but hey, he's Gandhi, he can't be right all the time.

There are also spiritual reasons for embracing pacifism.

If you believe in life after death, and that our actions in this life affect what becomes of us in the next, then it can make perfect sense to not fight back even when faced with imminent death. Dying isn't as big a deal if you know you'll continue existing afterwards, and since we're all going to die eventually, anyway, postponing that inevitability may very well be less important than ensuring that, when we do die, it's without whatever spiritual taint comes with performing violence.

And since life after death is demonstrably real in the Star Wars universe ...

And the afterlife is the same for both Jedi and Sith.

For the Jedi it's heaven, for the Sith, it's hell.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

The great beyond is a special kind of Hell for the Sith.

The Sith have always prided themselves on how superior & elite they are, & thus they fear this death to the point of finding all ways to escape or ascend it.

Because the ultimate fate of everyone in death is to bond together into oblivion. For Sith that hurts because it essentially reveals that they are just like everyone else in the end.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 2nd 2020 at 10:56:02 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

What afterlife? The ghost thing is supposed to be a rare technique.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

I find that to be so funny since it essentially means the Sith will have to be sharing their experiences with everyone else as one cosmic intelligence, never to regain any independent identity again. It's like Freeza's personal Hell on another level.

Edited by Shadao on Apr 2nd 2020 at 10:55:30 AM

NVM

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 2nd 2020 at 11:47:33 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

x3 - That’s more in terms of being able to cross into the world of the living.

Still say Palpatine should have been cast into Force Hell. At least in Dark Empire, his final ultimate death was at the hands of an Order 66 survivor with no take backs.

Palpy's end in Dark Empire is honestly fitting

His plans fall apart due to his overconfidence and thinking It didn't matter how much Luke sabotaged his efforts as long as he could get him to turn only to not factor in Leia

His puppets revolt causing his clones to be even less effective and thier infighting makes his assured victory disappear

NOBODY but maybe Iceheart likes the Guy

Hell his regathering the Imps together pretty much ensures that only one of the main Imp factions is gonna survive the Warlord era 'cause Kaine was smart enough to actually secure his area before leaving to join up'

He is killed by one or combination of the main trio atleast once.

His last desperate attempt to ruin The OT Trio's life is thwarted by a victim of his greatest act of malice and He doesn't even die gloriously fighting a Jedi... Simply shot in the back by that Scoundrel Han Solo probably the person he sees as most unworthy of taking his life.

While GL has changed his mind cause of course he does... when he originally praised Dark Empire was due to having Palpy be the Antagonist to the Characters so when they triumph over him once and for all... The empire really is dead when Palpy is dragged to hell

Thrawn and Daala can regather the forces all they want, The Empire is gone

Its like The Rome Analogy

PT Fall of the Republic/ Rise of the Empire

OT Splintering of the Empire

OEU, The Imperial presence is reduced to a far away power of Bastion on the Outer Rim and due to all the more aggressive Imps in philosophy and thought process get themselves killed trying to wage war with the NR or each other. Bastion is the Imps in name only 'Since Kaine realizes what is needed to survive isn't dumb Pro Human nonsense but stable infrastructure and a Reasonable area to control... then Pellaeon takes over and only really wages war of the NR due to Moffs still clinging onto the idea that They can have a presence in the Core and Mid Rim

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Apr 3rd 2020 at 9:03:08 AM

A while back, people were wondering why the Sith are so willing to follow the whole death by apprentice thing even before Bane's rule of two.

I remember this pet theory i had that stated the Dark side eventually enslaves the minds of it's users that they become so devoted to the Dark Side that they will eventually accept death as long as a stronger user takes over as it makes the Dark Side stronger.

It fits with Lucas calling the Dark Side cancer because all it does is take.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.