Netflix's The Dragon Prince

Yeah, Red from Overly Sarcastic Productions touched on that in her video on sequels.

Apparently a lot of writers are incapable of or allergic to writing stable relationships - which is incredibly grating because do we really need more drama in fiction?

On the other side, personally I love watching the slow process of two people getting closer.

But yeah, it would be nice to see more shows where characters get together stablely early on.

I remember Joss Whedon (creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Firefly) saying that he believes that happy couples don't make for good television. Which is why he always felt the need to either break them up, or have one of them die.

Like I said, this show doing this makes me less inclined to come back to it. Not just because of the break up, but because of the way it was handled. Having them break up in between seasons, off screen, with Rayla just leaving Callum on his birthday without saying anything, after they had just gotten together? Screw that. I mean, this show had always had its flaws, but it also had enough good stuff to make it worth the time. But this is a bridge too far.

Another thing I've noticed with romance in television is that they can put together couples, but only if they aren't the lead character. For example, on Avatar: The Last Airbender , Sokka and Suki got together during season 2, and stayed that way even at the end of the series. However, while he's one of the main characters, he's not the main character. On the flip side, Aang (who's the main character) and Katara got together at the end of the series. There's also a show like Phineas and Ferb , where Candace and Jeremy got together during season 2, but Phineas and Isabella hooked up at the end of the series.

Edited by jessicadicicco610 on Oct 11th 2020 at 5:45:36 AM

There's some amount of truth to that sentiment. I feel Whedon went just a bridge too far with just how much Buffy and Angel milked relationship toxicity for melodrama, and I am a little displeased that Dragon Prince is apparently not trying to explore the official Rayla/Callum pairing at all (on-screen), but general audiences tend to get bored of happy couples pretty quickly.

Stories need drama to hold the audience's attention. Audiences are glad to see couples get together, and maybe even stay happy for a little while, but if there's not enough tension in the relationship (or sauciness, but this is a kids' show), much of the audience will lose interest, and the relationship becomes dead weight to the broader story.

The examples I always see people point to are Castle and Bones - both of them resolved their will-they-won't-they arcs long before their respective finales, and in both cases, general audiences did not enjoy the change in the status quo for too long.

As pointed out, this is mostly a problem with lead character couples. If the relationship is not in the spotlight all the time, audiences won't think about it as often, so they won't tire of it so quickly.

Edited by MileRun on Oct 11th 2020 at 3:31:13 AM

In a certain work I read the relationship with the main guy isn't particularly interesting, and by design. Because it's supposed to be just a normal, healthy relationship between mature adults and there's not a lot of drama to be had there.

Admittedly, that relationship is never the focus for either character, but there are other characters whose relationship does get more time devoted to. And in the same way, as that relationship becomes more secure, it becomes more "boring" because the author isn't interested in throwing away the progression to a loving relationship for drama's sake.

Relationships aren't the only way to generate drama. Take a look at Kim Possible, for example - the protagonists got together in what was originally supposed to be the finale, but when the series was continued, not only were they still together, their relation became even more stable.

Relationship drama is very much the equivalent of a cheap pop. And it's been done to death.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Oct 11th 2020 at 4:31:59 PM

I vehemently disagree with that statement.

Any kind of drama can be done poorly, but without some kind of tension, stories don't hold together. Relationship drama is essential in making a (fictional) relationship interesting. It doesn't have to be a big melodrama, but if a relationship arc central to the story, the partners must face some form of continuing challenge to strengthen their relationship dynamic. If not, the pairing is dead weight to the story - either a "huh, that's nice I guess" at best, or a waste of screen time at worst.

Relationship development is like character development, but for two characters at once. Nobody likes a static character in the lead role. A static relationship is exactly the same thing.

The drama could have come from how other people react to the relationship. Obviously their close friends would be okay with it. But other people might have a problem with a human/elf couple, and give them a hard time for it. This could be a subplot, or at least a recurring theme.

They could have also had it so that the two of them have some important disagreement which puts a strain on their relationship, but doesn't break it. Like, for example, Rayla wanting to go after Viren. Maybe Callum could reluctantly go along with it, but keeps trying to dissuade her form it, or even undermine it. That way, they can stay together (at least for a while) but there is still drama.

Also gonna call bullshit on the idea that stable couples are boring. Tangled: the Series started with the leads together and decreed by prior canon to end the series together, and they still made for a dynamic and compelling relationship without resorting to a relationship reset or breaking them up to create drama. If the writers can't make a stable relationship interesting, that's a fault on them.

Yeah. Relationship drama can be compelling. Strong stable relationships can be compelling. And sometimes relationships don't even need drama and it's ok for them to be 'They're together' and we never need to elaborate further on it. I think it massively depends on the stakes you give the drama; not every fight or event has to be RELATIONSHIP ENDING or something like that. A fight is a fight. A disagreement or a sour moment is just a moment. It's fine. That's how you get Relationship DEVELOPMENT. You have those moments and you talk them out and, even me saying this right here, I have times where I'm SO bad at that.

I also think there's merit to relationships that aren't stable; that can be passionate and confusing and up and down without being toxic or 'Oh my god, why the fuck are you guys together?'/"Why would you take him back?".

Like, not every relationship drama has to be about OH MY GOD YOU CHEATED. No, sometimes it's about one person needing validation and emotional venting and not getting what they need out of their partner. Or feeling stuck in life and not sure what that means for their relationship. Or one person really wanting to spend time with their significant other but they work incredibly opposite shifts and it's straining the relationship a bit. Smaller more personal relationship struggles can often be more impactful and interesting because the stakes of the moment are so much smaller and more intimate.

And you can use those smaller moments to build into bigger drama; maybe they've needed to go on a date to relax for ages and haven't, one emotionally vents and doesn't find the validation they need, and then some other smaller things happen which build towards a larger relationship issue and actually earning those larger stakes.

I've developed a theory about what's going on. The Rayllum stuff may be a side effect of changes to the story vs the planned out arc for the future seasons.

Throughout several questions in the AMA, Ehasz suggested that Callum and Rayla won't see each other again for a very long time. He also re-stated in one answer how the idea of them having any sort of romantic interest in each other was never intended when the planned out the storyline, and only happened very suddenly near the end of development for season two.

That previously happened with Ezran, where they planned for him to stay on the journey to Xadia and then very late in season two's development realized he would feel the need to go home and be king. So that lead to the somewhat awkward structure in season three where they had to spend most of Ezran's subplot contriving a way to get him back into Xadia and undo the "he goes back to become king" idea.

What if there's a similar problem with Callum and Rayla? Where their plans for Rayla's character arc were incompatible with Rayllum so they figured "okay we'll be true to the characters and let them try this out for a little while in season three, then course correct for season four."

When they initially had Ezran go back to become king, I respected that. It was an unusual plot development that made it seem like the writers were willing to go outside the box. But when they undid it just a couple episodes later, it just made me wonder why they even bothered with that. Maybe if this had been a 20 episode season where Ezran could have been king for half the season it might have been worth it. But as it is, it just felt almost pointless.

If they felt that it was in his character to want to go back, that's fine. But it seems like, given the limited number of episodes, it might have been better to have one of the other characters talk him out of it, or give some reason why he can't go back, even if he wants to.

Or rather like the Addams Family - their relationship with one another is always basically healthy, but all the conflict comes from interacting with outsiders who don't share their idea of "normal".

Wonderstorm just announced Tales of Xadia, a tabletop RPG based on the series.

Tales of Xadia sounds likr a tales of game.

Maybe if they don't feel confidant writing it, they shouldn't put it in.

"On the flip side, Aang (who's the main character) and Katara got together at the end of the series.""

One can make a good comparation to korra were it establish relationship early on but it fall HARD on "relationship equals drama" that it pretty much sour all ship about it, which it hit mako reaaaaally hard, in the end mako end single after falling with the two girls he dated and both girl end become a couple that coincidencially become a thing in the end...just like anag and katara, not surprising is the most favour couple in fandom.

Hearing about how there is going to be a TDP game, I kinda thought about how FE game that bases it's magic system on TDP will play out:

Dark magic would make the most changes and used as an shortcut to create spells. Gameplay with dark magic would mostly be about acquiring magic parts and using them to cast spells which makes dark magic dependent on inventory as well as making it more scarcely to the game. Primal Magic is mostly a fixed category and will just be Light/Anima in one, though Luna becomes Moon Magic.

Here is how I think it would play out:

Sun: It would mostly be Fire and Light magic in one type

Moon: stat trolling with Luna as a powerful magic spell

Stars: a combination Sun and Moon Magic but with more thought on stat boosting and certian niche spells

Sky: Wind, ice and thunder in one type

Earth: Earth magic with the spell quake as a powerful spell

Ocean: Water, just a lot of water.

Moon and earth would be open to illusion soldiers ala Echoes, 3H, or Sacred Stones, while Earth could have magic that alters terrain a limited number of times.

Two pieces of news (one brand new, one very belated and just nobody ever put it in the forum thread):

-An update on Season 4, tldr: don't expect it for a long while. Between the pandemic and the time spent negotiating with Netflix for the full saga renewal they haven't been able to get much work done as of February 2021. https://thedragonprince.com/an-update-on-season-4-and-more/

-Through the Moon was only "book one" of a Dragon Prince graphic novel series! Book two is called "Bloodmoon Huntress" and is coming out in March 2022. It will be a prequel set several years before the show and focus on an "action-packed" event from Rayla's childhood. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDragonPrince/comments/m3ujor/2nd_graphic_novel_woot_woot/

So Wild Mass Guessing for the graphic novel series, now that we've gotten two books and both are Rayla-centric and Moon related, I'm guessing those are the overarching themes of the graphic novel series. It also makes me wonder if Through the Moon's cliffhanger is actually meant to be picked up in another book in the graphic novel series rather than season four.

Edited by IHOP on Mar 14th 2021 at 9:20:06 AM

Second graphic novel coming is in march not may. Also in 2022, not this year.

Whoops, somehow managed to misread the tweet multiple times. Will update the original post.

News - tabletop tactical miniatures game has been announced, The Dragon Prince Battlecharged

Fresh from its break, Dragon Prince will have a Comic Con at Home panel. The full schedule for the event isn’t set yet.