Avengers Endgame spoiler thread

Is it weird that one of the first thoughts I had when the movie pretty much asked the audience "okay, satisfied now, are those enough characters" I was all "nope, where the hell is goose"?

Anyway, it is kind of surprising that at least a basic script for Captain Marvel wasn't done earlier, considering how often the movie got delayed. But it shows that they had no true idea about her character. And I feel kind of cheated that we never got the "get to know each other" scene. Those are for me the main reasons I like crossovers.

Yeah, I was waiting for the CM post-credits scene to happen and them to all introduce themselves to Carol and vice-versa. Either that's now a deleted scene or it just all happened off-screen.

DVD extras I imagine,they'll make a killing that way

That scene with the surviving Avengers tinkering with Fury's pager for Carol can't make sense anymore as the former seeing Carol for the first time was depicted differently in this movie. As I said before, they should have had a scene of Carol explaining herself to the Avengers remnants but now that it's been told her debut movie wasn't planned out well...

I assumed that this one happens BEFORE the scene when she turns up the first time in the movie.

So, for the most part, I absolutely loved this. But I have one giant hang up.

Why the hell was Thor's character reduced to fat jokes and a mockery of PTSD? Almost every "funny" moment of his is making fun of his weight or making fun of debilitating fear and anxiety. Even without that type of crappy, mean spirited humor, I think making Thor be almost entirely there for comic relief is a pretty bad choice for this type of movie. I know Hemsworth wanted Thor to be funnier, but I think there's a limit. There's a difference between a funny character and just straight up making the character a joke, and I definitely feel that they did the latter.

So who are we predicting to be on the roster of the Avengers after the events of Endgame?

Sam, Rhody, Wanda, Scott, Peter P. and Carol? I kind of like the idea of no original Avengers, and they all have excuses Thor is in space, Clint in theory returns to his retirement with his family, I guess Bruce might not be retired, but he didn't seem to be an active member of the Avengers after the time skip

Also, weird idea, but I like the idea of the Black Widow film being set in the five year time skip. I feel like it's unlikely, as it would make the film inaccessible to new fans, but it would be neat for exploring that time period.

New fans for what? Unless they have some sort of plan, this will hardly be some franchise starter. In fact, it now comes off like some crumb which is thrown out way too late.

I highly doubt they don't plan to spin a trilogy to Black Widow; there's no point in putting money into a new IP if they don't think that IP has a future.

Perhaps the entire Black Widow Trilogy will be prequels even, which I'm not entirely against.

Scarlett Johansen might not be ready to sign of to another multi-picture contract.

I would've said the same of Chris Hemsworth, but he seems ready and willing to take part in more Marvel goodness alongside the Guardians.

And something that ocurred to me: with Thor going to SPAAAAAAAACE, James Gunn can actually pass on Stormbreaker to Beta Ray Bill!

THE DREAM LIVES ON!

So I just rewatched Avengers and I can't help but notice how weak and unimpressive Cap seemed during the whole movie. Funny, considering Endgame all but confirms that 2012 Cap = 2023 Cap. Seems the whole 'Cap got stronger the more years he trained' thing was rubbish.

Alright so... Trying to make sense of the timeline changes.

Quill gets knocked out, wakes up, runs to the chamber and... finds the de-orbed Power Stone? He's there, specifically for the Orb, so he probably just gets annoyed and starts running before the Ravagers catch up to him. Korath, sent by Ronan, might recognize what he's looking at, but just as easily might not. Besides that, they'd likely lack a way to get it out or handle it properly without all of them being burned alive by it. Even more likely, with Thanos dusted in another timeline, Ronan no longer has a reason to seek the Orb at all, and will presumably call off Korath before he even gets there. This does mean that the Guardians never form, but it should also mean that Ego never becomes aware of/gets his hands on Quill, so... the worst thing is that those golden people have to deal with their own space octopus, Yondu doesn't die, suffer a mutiny, or get accepted back into Ravager culture. Mostly a good thing... oh and Drax is stuck in prison. Ronan is still a terrorist, too, instead of being dead, but maybe the Xandarins call up Captain Marvel to slap him around.

The Loki with Tesseract timeline has big problems, though. Loki's escaped, has the Tesseract, but no Sceptor. Thanos may not be able to contact him without the Sceptor's connection, and with no base alongside the Tesseract and his own knowledge of magic and hidden paths, Loki is more or less free to do whatever he wants. Thanos will want the Tesseract, but let's see him catch Loki. Thor will recognize the Mind Stone when it's returned, and will bring it to Asgard for safe keeping. Thor the Dark World goes down significantly differently, maybe better, likely worse. Losing the Tesseract means Asgard lacks easy travel options until the Bifrost is repaired, so Thor sticks around Earth a bit longer... maybe he can connect with Foster, which keeps her from getting infected by the Aether? Without Loki on Asgard, being part of Dark World, assuming they get through it okay, Odin shouldn't get hidden to wither and die on Earth, which should mean that Hela doesn't get released and no Ragnarok... or maybe a later Ragnarok, depending on Thanos' actions. On the plus side, Age of Ultron probably doesn't happen either, meaning no Sokovia and no Civil War, and with Hydra thinking Cap was a long term plant, they're more likely to futz things up around him, possibly preventing the events of Winter Soldier, as well, Hydra getting nipped by Cap alongside the Avengers... or at least given enough of a black eye that they retreat to the shadows instead of trying to enact global genocide. Which would leave Earth pretty well defended. We'd lose out on Falcon, Wanda, Vision and Pietro... still worth it, for no Ultron, no Dark Elves, no Hela and a united Avengers... wait, no. Wakanda stays isolated. That's a problem if Thanos ever shows up for the Time Stone.

The Steve timeline... seems to indicate that he went back, took the long way home and that his timeline was the main MCU one the entire time. I haven't seen most of Agent Carter's show, but a) the movies have drifted from accepting TV series as canon, b) is it really impossible to slot Steve in there? Why can't we just accept him as part of Carter's wonderful life? He tells her soon after returning that he did some time travel, and needs to keep his full identity secret, so she helps hims fudge some papers and they live together until she dies, then he just waits for things to unfold. Also, he got that shield fixed at some point... that's a little strange, but maybe explains where that one Tony was using as leverage in Ironman 2, came from.

Anyway, I enjoyed it well enough. Could have been called, Avengers: Let's Wrap This Franchise Up. But we know that's not going to happen.

Yeah, the way that Thor was treated in this movie did suck. The fat jokes were essentially just "he's fat, so he's basically not even a hero anymore", the jokes about him becoming an alcoholic were rough, and the joke about him crying because of seeing his dead mom felt like such a weird invocation of "men don't cry unless they're weak", which, besides the obvious problematic nature of it...multiple men do cry in this movie and it's not treated as them being pathetic, so what gives?

Also, it was a little hard to tell, but when T'Challa and Shuri stepped out of the portal, was the third person with them Okoye? Because if so...wasn't she still alive post-Snap? If not, pay no mind.

Edited by unexplainedEnemy on Apr 26th 2019 at 6:01:45 AM

Norse myth was all about the toxic masculinity tbf.

Thor 1 manchild Thor would have fit right in.

Yeah that was Okoye. She was there because that was a portal to Wakanda and she met up with T'Challa and Shuri after they came back.

Like Rocket said, everyone had dead people, and he needed Thor to focus because their mission was important. He knew what they were doing and where and when they were going. The problem wasn't that Thor was crying, the problem was that Thor needed to keep it together right then. But it still turned out to be a net positive, because Thor needed to talk to Frigga and he needed to know he was still worthy to get his confidence back.

And as much as Thor was kind of a punch line, when it came time to kick ass for real, Thor kicked ass for real. Dual wielding hammers and everything. There were no jokes about him getting winded, or being out of shape, or weak, or slow. He was just kicking Thanos's ass.

And I don't really see how Cap can be seen as weak in this movie when he puts up the best, longest fight out of anyone in the movie against Thanos other than Carol, who is straight up >>> Thanos.

And wields Mjolnir.

My theater fucking cheered for that. People were losing it in the final battle.

you mean Mew-Mew

Edited by Ultimatum on Apr 26th 2019 at 10:18:37 AM

To me Star Lord came off weakest.

As for the leadership of the guardians at the end I kind of think it had to be Rocket. He is now the oldest and most experienced active superhero in that outfit.

I think the Russos and Feige like Rocket best of all guardians. Heck he is kind of a MCU mascot since people will always define the MCU as the brand that made a talking raccoon a thing.

a talking Racoon.. and his ent friend

Rocket would actually be a good Choice. Thor respects rabbit more than quail and quill would be more fine with rocket than Thor leading

Edited by Deadpoolrocks on Apr 26th 2019 at 3:30:06 AM

Cap lifting Mew-Mew and the "Avengers Assemble" are obvious crowd-pleasers, but did anyone else's theater cheered during the "Hail HYDRA"? Because mine did, and fairly loudly at that.

Sharknado: Small correction: Wanda also wastes Thanos, and differently from Cap(both), she wasn't defeated or knocked out, just distracted by a barrage of space missiles. So I'd say she gave Thanos the biggest ass-whopin'.

Edited by HailMuffins on Apr 26th 2019 at 7:39:59 AM

For Thor: I think they did make fun of his weight a bit, but not his PTSD. His conversation with his mother was tearjerking and he eventually does gain back his confidence, dual wielding Stormbreaker and Mjolnir.

I do love that even though Mjolnir was destroyed in Ragnarok, they found a way to bring it back temporarily just to give Steve that moment when he picks it up.

Wanda almosts wastes him. Carol completely no sells him. In either situation, he had to fight dirty in order to "win."

Edited by alliterator on Apr 26th 2019 at 3:46:11 AM