Goblin Slayer (anime! light novel!)

Then Tropes Are Tools is in effect.

Just because it's offensive to people doesn't mean it's bad.

That Tool is extremely effective in making people react and it's easy to see why it's used that way.

Would Griffth be as hated if he didn't rape Casca?

Edited by Auralian on Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:45:42 AM

Well Berserk’s infamous moment is certainly legendary & iconic..... for better or worse.

And would stopping Griffith be less important if Casca wasn't? Griffith is also doing it out of vengeance against Guts and and stroking his own pride, an in-character action that he has tried to do beforehand, unlike the Goblins who are one-dimensional fodder, already slaughtering innocencts by the thousands and are created solely to be killed by the MC. Griffith is also once human, while the Goblins reproduce by rape because the author decides to include it. Racist and Sexist tropes exists and are retired, criticized or forgotten.

Also, just in case of appearing like double standards, I hate Griffith's rape of Casca because it butchers her character for 100+ chapters.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Jan 3rd 2019 at 1:54:10 AM

Again with the opinioned facts and buzzwords(racist and sexist). I'll just be content to watch this thread as this argument unfolds here.

Edited by Auralian on Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:55:32 AM

Buzzwords? I did not say that you were racist or Sexist, but that I'm rebutting the idea that tropes are just tools and thus it can't be bad even if they offend people.

Um, the person who revived this argument was you.

Then I'm quite sorry for that.

This whole time you've been trying to argue that people shouldn't be offended by the rape scenes in this series. That it's somehow justified because it's a narrative tool.

That's not cool. And that's coming from someone who is not offended enough by said rape scenes to quit the series.

I just want to add that using in-universe reasons to justify rape scenes and other forms of abuse is quite frankly a load of bull because that just means the author went out of their way to justify including those elements. It doesn't really "answer" anything.

More like I'm offering my opinions regarding the "rape" argument.

In this thread where the majority of people unanimious in their "facts" and brushing off anyone else who says otherwise as "not being accepting of criticism", now I'm bad guy here?

At least I now have a clear view of what kind of people who frequent in this forum.

Edited by Auralian on Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:22:29 AM

Point out someone who says you are not accepting of criticism. I certainly never suggest anything about you. In fact, you are the one who suggested we are unaccepting of criticism.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Jan 3rd 2019 at 2:25:52 AM

While I do think this series has a lot of redeeming qualities, I always never liked Always Chaotic Evil as a trope for any fictional group of people. I always will be uncomfortable about the goblin children being slaughtered. I mean I know is the excuse that children in-series are just as evil as adults, but that never really sat well with me. Also one thing that always makes it seem like a Broken Aesop here is that the rhea thief is criticized for making his whole species look bad, when you have a whole species in this setting that is pure evil. Any anti-racism messages will feel contradicted.

To be fair about GS killing the Goblin children, part of it is averting the Cycle of Revenge by cutting it off at the start. It's not so much that kids are as evil as the adults, and more that they're going to become as or more evil than the adults, especially since their family just got killed by an adventurer.

There's even a scene where GS notes how his own behavior is similar to the goblins'.

The thing is that the children have been depicted as unrepentant evil. The Goblin Lord was shown taking advantage of an adventurer's mercy, then killing her as a child when his back was turned. It's time and again show Goblin children will take advantage of their helpless state, so that they can kill adventurers. That's the problematic part. I can deal with the adults being evil, but showing even the kids being born evil is another thing. It's kind of unsettling close to how real life children in history were considered not worthy of life because they were "supposedly" evil.

Edited by firewriter on Jan 2nd 2019 at 10:56:21 AM

Compared to the literal monsters here who may not even be from the same planet.

Even the Goblin Lord as a child has a bit of an explanation. The fact he was out by himself in the wilderness as a child suggests he's a survivor of a goblin nest that was cleared out by Adventurers. So he's part of that cycle too.

Yes, and not in a good way...goblins aren't wounded victims seeking revenge, they're vicious psychopaths who need to be cut off at the grow lest they grow. To a one.

It's also tiresome to see valid critiques dismissed as 'buzz words' with the insinuation of "you're just too sensitive if you dislike it" we're seeing. People do criticize the use of rape in ASOIAF, which does handle it far, far better than Berserk or GS. I mean, what's the argument of Berserk's? "Oh, yeah, you REALLY hate Griffith now, it's iconic!" And reduces the only strong female character to a catatonic vegetable for...how many years? Berserk is better about this with Miura's depression seemingly in a better place (and introducing characters like Luca, Schierke, Farnese and so forth) but it's had bits that were just gratuitously bad.

Goblins see themselves as victims in part because they've also got severe entitlement issues. The way they're portrayed they seem like an entire race of low functioning sociopaths. Smarter ones like the Goblin Lords and the Goblin Paladin and Goblin Priest are higher functioning ones.

Precisely.They literally rape to reproduce, too. Like, even if nobody ever harmed a goblin, they'd be doing the same routine.

Though we don't really know how they reproduce in their native environment.

Well the author is a Lord of the Rings fan so their origins may lie in being artificially created.

While I don't think we'll ever get an explanation — I actually think even the author doesn't have an idea in mind — my headcanon is that the green moon itself somehow spawns them not unlike fungi. Which would give them something else in commmon with 40K Orks.

The reason the moon is green? It's covered with the dessicated dusty remains of all the goblins who spawned and died on it. Think Darksiders and how the vast desert in that game was made out of the ashes of humanity.

Edited by M84 on Jan 3rd 2019 at 3:49:59 AM

Does it really though? For all of Berserk's faults on the subject, it's at least equal opportunity, and Guts' being a rape victim shapes a large part of who he is in the present, by contrast I haven't heard anything good about Ice and Fire's usage of rape, it doesn't help that I find Martin's justification of it absolutely self-righteous and reprehensible.

I've never read the books so I can say anything about it there, but I do recall the tv show getting criticism from adding rape in places where that never happened in the source material. Which is also a big part of why I heard the tv show had gotten worse as an adaptation and its own story.

The show turned what was apparently a consensual sex scene in the book into a rape scene, for one thing.

Yeah...