Amphibia (A cute Disney animated series about a world of frogs)

That's shifting the goalposts.

Steven Universe seemed to go out of its way to systematically remove any elements that could cause real conflict, or make a character seem genuinely bad or unsympathetic. The message seemed to be "there are no bad people, anyone that seems bad is just misunderstood, or needs a hug". It came off as naive, and made the show feel like just escapist wish fulfillment. There's nothing wrong with escapism up to a point, but telling kids that all problems can be solved with talking, and you can make anyone your friend doesn't seem like a good thing to teach kids. Because its not true.

Not any more or less than some shows indicating that all problems can be solved with force or violence, or other shows indicating that all shows can be solved by being smarter than everyone else / because people were just too stupid to do so before, or - as this series does - via reinforcing the power of friendship and having each other’s backs.

The very idea that we can go out and solve the problems of the world via our own merits is, generally speaking, an intentionally idealistic bit of escapism. “We can solve everything” is something most kids shows tell kids so that they can obtain the skills necessary to try and solve what little they actually can address later in their own lives.

It’s kind of silly - or, more accurately, it’s missing the point - to fault one show for approaching that escapism by one particular avenue when everyone is doing it.

Steven Universe isn’t saying that every problem in life can be solved because people secretly want to be friends any more than Batman is legitimately telling kids they can get rid of corruption by punching monsters in the face or this show is telling kids that all strangers are kindly people who will take you in if you’re lost. It comes off as an intentionally caustic misreading of the show’s intentions.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 19th 2022 at 11:55:14 AM

There’s multiple Gems in the show who don’t want hugs and despise any attempt to negotiate with them, like Jasper, Holly Blue Agate, Eyeball Ruby, and Aquamarine. The latter two even form a fusion based solely on how much they hate Steven (being incompatible in every way but their mutual hatred) and Steven is faced with a hard lesson that some people will refuse to change. So no, the show doesn’t think everyone is just nice at heart. But as it’s directed to children, I think it’s more helpful to teach them to seek peaceful means with their peers instead of fighting them.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 19th 2022 at 11:52:31 AM

Jasper DID change toward the end of Future though so she isn't a good example.

I think that "seeking peaceful means" thing is getting bashed by some people is due to more recent events, where many bigots, rich people and politicians proved themselves to be cartoony in their behavior, to the point that "everyone means well" thing is not so realistic anymore. The show also made Steven into some sort of "Jesus figure" close the finale and in the start of Future miniseries, who is basically the most powerful being among his "Diamond" family and transition of Homeworld from dictatorship to democracy (as soon as Steven came to power) came rather quick.

x5 Any more so than Amphibia is teaching that self sacrifice when you have ultimate power is the truest mark of being a good person that a divine multi-versal being will gift you guardianship of the universe because of your moral excellence. If you give the entire world the same decision Anne had, I'm pretty sure you will find a good chunk would make that same decision no problem, including probably a lot of bastards.

Lots of stories for kids are a combination of escapism, power fantasy, and morality tale, but we don't begrudge certain stories because it doesn't work like that in real life. If Amphibia was real, the power of the stones and their technological advances would mean pretty much our end, but we were saved because of the power of friendship and a normal girl being able to overpower a tyrant by turning their own weapon against them and do the exact same emotional play Steven Universe and OK KO did (if Andrias didn't give up, Anne would have lost right there). That would never happen in real life, but we allow it, because that's how some of us want to find emotional fulfillment in our stories.

Edited by HeyMikey on May 19th 2022 at 12:00:28 PM

Shifting focus back on topic, Matt Braly gave another tweet this time on people asking on if Terri's portal could be rebuilt and allow the girls to revisit Amphibia. He said it could only open a pinhole sized portal regardless of how much energy they pumped into it and is only useful for having a tiny hold send messages but the FBI confiscated the research and wouldn't give the girls access.

https://twitter.com/Radrappy/status/1527357159922552832?cxt=HHwWgMCqpdTPobIqAAAA

Mr X would also see interdimensional travel as dangerous due to the greed and corruption of the newts invading other worlds.

https://twitter.com/Radrappy/status/1527359374963855388?cxt=HHwWuMCq0cvQorIqAAAA

That said, he did say someday Mr X and Terri would call the girls with a surprise in the future and implied Marcy's Journal could address it.

https://twitter.com/Radrappy/status/1527357580799987715

He also confirmed Toadstool and Toadie are in love.

https://twitter.com/Radrappy/status/1527350652803829762?cxt=HHwWhMCqvfLUnrIqAAAA

Concept art for Sasha and Marcy's calamity forms too.

https://twitter.com/torpordust/status/1527319903664885765?cxt=HHwWisCixYfXkLIqAAAA

Sort of but not quite? She only began respecting Steven when he beat her in a fight (and almost killed her) because of her toxic mentality that might makes right that she never really moved from. When we last see her Steven is telling her to go find something to do with her life that isn’t following someone else around for orders on who to punch. She never really transitions to “good”, just not an active threat anymore.

The way I see it, it depends on the target audience. I will absolutely criticize a show for adults like Falcon and the Winter Soldier for a “one speech makes the politicians nice” ending. But a show for children, even in a space opera setting, tends to be more about closer to home circumstances like difficult parents, siblings, etc. Children tend to absorb media in the context of what they’re raised in, so I don’t really fault SU for portraying Steven as reforming the Diamonds because it’s meant as a narrative about families, not actual political rulers.

True, though we don’t know much about what she’s doing there.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 19th 2022 at 12:59:18 PM

Actually Jasper's last appearence was in the final episode, The Future where she is attending Little Homeschool.

FYI, even Matt Braly’s tweets should be taken with a grain of salt now, as he says he’s “a humble theorist” now:

https://twitter.com/radrappy/status/1527359674797854731?s=21&t=4yMFVoNP60E2cQJJsJr1jg

So Word of God is now downplayed for this show.

matt u fibberboy,you lying liar who lies!

He didn't almost kill her, he DID kill her and only his magic gem powers brought her back to life. I really wish the show how done more to address how f-ed up that was.

Edited by GlitterCat on May 19th 2022 at 2:18:08 AM

I love your sense of humor.

mat ur literally the guy that made Amphibia,you cant be a humble theorist!

To be honest, after many creators have shat the bed with post series info like Craig Bartlett I appreciate Matt being like that.

And Harry Potter *cough* *cough*

I was going to say Craig Barlett pulled a JK Rowling, but he's not bigoted or anything like that so I decided not to say it.

When did he do that?

Makes sense after the whole "not wanting to step on anyone's ships/headcanons" thing. Like, I thought he might have his own personal thoughts on where the girls' relationship goes afterwards- or on who if anyone was particularly attracted to whom- but if so he'd never share them- we should be able to imagine what we like.

heck, a corner of my brain still thinks that now that they're all reasonably older and Anne's in a science field herself, she and Terri might have had a fling. Partly because I would have laughed my ass off Rich Evans-style if Matt had pulled a Rebuild of Evangelion and dumped on all the shipping wars by putting the protagonist with someone introduced at almost the last minute

Andrias Fanart

Involving a timeskip

Most people don't care about the actual story, they just wait for it to end...so they can do whatever they want with the characters.

Amending this with the lowest category of names villains:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15194306090A10363100&page=112#comment-2799

Super soldiers and lowly grunts : These would be the frobots, mind-controlled monsters, newt army, and toad army, to include Sasha Waybright and Captain Grime.

So both Marcy and Sasha get to be in the villain hierarchy, though both are redeemed by the end. And of course, Darcy was the angel of death. Even excluding the time she was Darcy, tragic knight Marcy was still higher on the “ladder of corruption” than soldier Sasha due to her proximity to the beguiled emperor (King Andrias) and her fitting a key trait of the tragic knights: that their parental figure betrays them and cruelly tosses them aside when they are no longer useful. This happened to Marcy, but not to Sasha, as Grime never abandoned or betrayed Sasha.

Edited by beneficii on May 19th 2022 at 4:48:04 AM

So, anyone find it funny how Anne, Sasha, and Marcy literally sound the same as 23 year olds as they did when 13? Granted I know their voices are already close to Brenda, Anna, and Haley's natural voices but still.

I did find that funny, tbh. I mean I guess considering Anne and Sasha already sounded older than 13, those same voices worked for them as 23 year olds but Marcy did very much sound like a younger teen to me so hearing that same voice for 23 year old Marcy was a bit strange.