One Winged Egret
You're not tired of people praising the movie because that's not actually happening in this thread. Every who'd praise the movie has either been driven away or otherwise moved on, and the ones sticking around who like it are constantly on the defensive addressing statements made by the people who dislike it.
Destroyer of Worlds
But it's true. Aside from redeeming Vader, none of the OT trio achieve ultimate victory in their lives.
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
"Either achieve ultimate victory or be condemned as a miserable failure who might as well have never been born" is certainly one outlook we could take on the story, I suppose.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Funny but not helpful
Meanwhile I will keep believing in Rey, first of the Reydi, and Broom Boy.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Redeeming Vader was more of a penultimate victory for Luke. He wanted his shitty dad to live and join the side of Light instead of dunking an old man and instantly dying and becoming a ghost without earning it.
He accidentally went out and caused both Vader and the Emperor to die which was what his shitty teachers wanted to happen but what Luke was trying to reject as his own goal.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:01:50 AM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
I mean, Luke’s new Jedi Order were all killed/ converted to the dark side by his own nephew. Then he spent 20 years in self exile. Sound pretty much like failure to me.
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
@Gaon
I've seen far more from the people who hated the movie.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
If you deliberately ignore all of the things he did directly before and after that, sure.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
The Head of the Hydra
Luke kinda is a failure in the end.
His entire Order ends up decimated by one of his students so he just gives up completely & then just goes off to some remote planet to become a hermit & die.
His victory against Kylo is pretty much his Swan Song.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
One Winged Egret
How is redeeming Vader an "ultimate victory" in any sense at all? He died like 5 minutes later. Might as well have killed him, for all the difference it made 30 years later.
I can't believe the OT would undercut Luke's victory like that. Very rude.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:04:26 AM by Clarste
It's not our fault that other posters choose to leave for their own reasons. Sorry, that's not how it works. They didn't have to leave, they chose to, and fair enough to them, but that doesn't mean that it's the other side's fault.
And considering how many times I've heard "well you just don't like the movie because you don't understand its themes/what it was going for" or "you're just a fanboy who doesn't like that it didn't fit your pre-conceived notions/expectations," etc, I'd say that the problem runs both ways.
Also I saw what Luke did at the end. But here's the thing, I don't believe that it was much of an accomplishment, simple as that. 15 people escaping in the Falcon from a battle that they already catastrophically lost doesn't amount to much imo. Especially if you're going to them kill Luke off without him getting to even try and rebuild what was destroyed.
x8 No, its more like they didn't even put forth an effort.
Leia gave up on the NR instead choosing to make her own private army. Luke went to a planet and just was waiting to die. The New Republic that everyone fought to create was a useless and pointless entity that did nothing and the movies made a point to show that things did not get better at all after the rebellion.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:06:02 AM by Memers
Not really a lord of anything
Luke's sacrifice was practically identical to Obi-Wan's only on a much larger scale and in a way that made Luke look powerful.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:05:58 AM by LordVatek
This song needs more love.
Funny but not helpful
Its basically Dunkirk.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
The Resistance escaped to save the dream of revolution and spread the legend of what Luke did there that day. The importance of which I cannot stress enough - it's the entire point of the final scene. Hope is a little bit of a recurring theme in Star Wars, and that's what Luke gave the galaxy.
You think that the First Order would have let it be known what happened on Crait, if they were the only ones who knew? They were humiliated by a single man, they would have killed anyone who even dared breathe a word of it. But because they failed to extinguish the Resistance, now the story is out there.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
x5 By the movie's own message, even saving just a few people is worth something, and those people can start something much greater - "the spark that will light the fire" and all that. You might not think it's worth much, but I think the movie effectively communicated why it mattered, and I can think of a few ways it can pay off.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:07:14 AM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!
One Winged Egret
It is your fault if you drive away fans. This is a website that lives and breathes by attracting visitors. That was the whole point of the Fast Eddie quote provided. Not all opinions are created equal when advertising money is on the line.
warrior93
@ Clarste
I think the movie was trying to be a deconstruction initially because of the stuff they did with Poe and the Jedi in the beginning. Mainly it mocked the notion that one Hero can save the world then try to change it around at the end by saying over never mind. I'll expand on it later but movie tries to deconstruct Han Solo via Poe and in the beginning it tries to do a warts and all approach to the Old Jedi Order which i don't think was necessary.
Unrelated note: I didn't like Rose only just because he prevented Finn was escaping I'm sorry but you don't taser an innocent unarmed black guy and was Finn even part of the resistance. I thought he was a freelancer like Han Solo and how did his "legend" spread so quickly?
edited 12th Jan '18 11:12:41 AM by warrior93
Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.
The Head of the Hydra
Said single man is dead though & he was no mere man.
No more Jedi now.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:07:54 AM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Er..."no more Jedi?"
Have we forgotten about the main character?
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
One Winged Egret
Also Obi Wan's death in Star Wars is like the stupidest thing ever, in retrospect.
Would that it were so simple.
Dunkirk involved the rescue of four hundred thousand people, and there was still a country — Britain — in the metropole that wasn't conquered.
Here we have fifteen people in one ship and the First Order with a basically uncontested stranglehold over every part of the Galaxy that matters.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
I can think of five things in the OT that are even stupider.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
The Head of the Hydra
Well at least Rey is gonna have Ghost Luke to finally teach her shit.
Also whatever she can get from those books.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Toss away, Adric, I think I can guess a couple of them.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:11:00 AM by TheMageofFire
Just because Force Awakens did a soft reboot three years ago doesn't mean that this movie needed to double and triple down on the soft reboot instead of taking steps to rectify said soft reboot.
Red letter media criticized the Star trek movies for doing likewise.
Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.