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X-Men: Dark Phoenix

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alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
Sep 22nd 2019 at 9:51:30 AM

No, that is exactly what happened.
No, that makes zero sense. Jean returns from the dead in The Last Stand and almost immediately becomes evil, killing Cyclops. Hell, there is nothing in it that even indicates that Professor X "didn't believe in her," he just put a power block on her because he didn't think a child could be trusted with that amount of power.

The Last Stand is one of the most inane X-Men films precisely because Jean has no character in it and just does stuff for the sake of plot.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Sep 22nd 2019 at 10:59:08 AM

She was evil because of the Phoenix personality that was created when Xavier put psychic barriers to hold back Jeanís power. He still kept those barriers on her even as an adult because he didnít believe that Jean could ever control her power and held the personality back.

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Sep 22nd 2019 at 2:00:52 PM

RavenWilder Raven Wilder
Raven Wilder
Sep 22nd 2019 at 12:00:00 PM

What exactly is Jean's motivation in The Last Stand. She does evil stuff, but why? What is it she wants?

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
Sep 22nd 2019 at 12:44:05 PM

[up][up] So she was evil because of her evil personality. Got it.

Yep, still stupid.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany
Foreign Troper
Sep 22nd 2019 at 1:10:05 PM

[up][up] Be free, I guess. Act on her impulses, without anyone holding her back.

Other than that, I got nothing.

Belief Makes You Stupid indeed.
Sep 22nd 2019 at 5:16:33 PM

Wait if the solar flare triggered it than what the fuck was that in Apocalypse?

Telekinetic energy.

Edited by ManOfSin on Sep 22nd 2019 at 8:16:51 AM

slimcoder Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Sep 22nd 2019 at 5:24:37 PM

That manifests in the shape of a Phoenix.........

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 22nd 2019 at 5:25:52 AM

Can you see all of me? Walk into my mystery. Do you remember me? Capture you or set you free I am all. I am all... I am all of me
Blueace Blue Reflection Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Blue Reflection
Sep 22nd 2019 at 6:37:01 PM

Did this thread ended up going in circles again?

Nightwire Humans inferior. Ultron superior. Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Humans inferior. Ultron superior.
Sep 22nd 2019 at 6:58:25 PM

This thread is always going in circle.

Just like the death-rebirth cycle of a Phoenix

Bite my shiny Vibranium ass, Avengers.
Sep 22nd 2019 at 7:07:33 PM

I seriously wonder what there is left to discuss. This movie was a whimper, but I think that ultimately the legacy of the Fox Men will be a positive one. It pioneered the comic book movie by being one of the first A list superteams in film, and allowed spinoffs from traditional hero films to things like drama, absurdist comedies, and paved the way for more faithful adaptations that continued to pull away from the conventional comic book action film.

So even if DP was a dud, the X-Men film series will be fondly remembered.

"That's right kid. Never play an ace when a two will do."
Sep 23rd 2019 at 5:11:15 AM

I seriously wonder what there is left to discuss.

The movie just came out on home media. That is why there is a discussion happening. You yourself saw it several days ago and started a discussion.

Edited by ManOfSin on Sep 23rd 2019 at 8:13:48 AM

Sep 23rd 2019 at 5:34:25 AM

And everyone except Sophie Turner wore it on their faces. They were done with these films, and if Disney asks them to come back, theyíre going to politely decline.

I remember watching a Glass interview where James Macvoy said he would be down with playing Professor X in the MCU.

In fact, his contract was up after Apocalypse but he came back.

Edited by ManOfSin on Sep 23rd 2019 at 9:32:20 AM

Mizerous Zappy Zappy Lady from Normura Land Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Zappy Zappy Lady
Sep 23rd 2019 at 11:17:09 AM

[up][up][up] Fondly? Pretty sure it is more of a mixed back. For everything good about Magneto Xavier and Wolverine there is shit on characters like Emma, Scott, and Psylocke to begin with not even talking about the films themselves.

See Ya!
TargetmasterJoe Much more than meets the eye! from The City, USA Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Much more than meets the eye!
Sep 23rd 2019 at 11:26:21 AM

[up] If I'm looking back at anything fondly regarding the X-Men movies, it'll be for the Deadpool movies (and Logan).

Status: Evil beware, I have Twitter!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany
Foreign Troper
Sep 23rd 2019 at 11:49:19 AM

I've certainly never seen a Movieverse as inconsistent in quality as the Foxverse.

Even for the same characters. I mean, on the one hand there is the masterpiece that is Logan......and then there is Origins: Wolverine.

Edited by Forenperser on Sep 23rd 2019 at 8:49:39 PM

Belief Makes You Stupid indeed.
Weirdguy149 The sleeping royal from Galar Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
The sleeping royal
Sep 23rd 2019 at 11:56:53 AM

The only bad movies are Dark Phoenix and Origins in my mind. Everything else is either great, good, or has some great scenes in the case of Last Stand.

I say, fitting time for a nap, eh what?
alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:45:16 PM

Bad movies:

  • X-Men: The Last Stand
  • X-Men Origins: Wolverine
  • X-Men: Apocalypse
  • Dark Phoenix

Mediocre movies:

  • The Wolverine

Good movies:

  • X-Men
  • X-Men 2
  • X-Men: First Class
  • Deadpool 2

Great movies:

  • Logan
  • Deadpool

Edited by alliterator on Sep 23rd 2019 at 1:01:16 AM

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:46:37 PM

[up]Thatís still 6-4 in favor of good times. Yes, the franchise was maddeningly inconsistent, but when it was on, it was on.

Even Apocalypse and Last Stand had a good scene or two. Thatís part of why Dark Phoenix feels like such a whimper.

Edited by Beatman1 on Sep 23rd 2019 at 3:47:31 PM

"That's right kid. Never play an ace when a two will do."
Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:57:56 PM

The only truly bad X-films are Origins and Apocalypse. Speaking in terms of quality rather than enjoyment because my least favorite X-film would be X3, but it is really only bad on a story level, otherwise it is a well made movie.

Apocalypse is a guilty pleasure, has moments but itís story structure is an absolute mess. The first act is over a hour long before reaching a plot point, then we have this random Weapon X sequence out of nowhere, and the heroes donít face Apocalypse/Horsemen until the last 30 minutes of the movie. But even the battle is just bad overall with unfinished CGI and the fights being poorly choreographed. The narrative is bloated and unfocused riddled with tons of subplots. Not to mention Apocalypseís bad make-up that makes him look like he is made out of rubber.

I donít think I need to speak on Origins(though I love Liev SchreiberĎs performance). But that film and Apocalypse are the only films in the franchise that are both bad on a production and story level.

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Sep 23rd 2019 at 5:01:40 AM

Mizerous Zappy Zappy Lady from Normura Land Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Zappy Zappy Lady
Sep 23rd 2019 at 1:54:35 PM

[up] What cgi?

See Ya!
Sep 24th 2019 at 10:30:10 AM

@ alliterator

What did you think of X-Men: Days of Future Past then?

Edited by HallowHawk on Sep 25th 2019 at 1:31:28 AM

alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
Sep 24th 2019 at 10:51:31 AM

I forgot about that one while making the list. It's an unusual one, because there are a lot of great moments in it, but overall, I think it's less than the sum of its parts.

Part of the reason for that, actually, it that it does what X-Men 2, X-Men: The Last Stand, and X-Men: First Class all did: it switched the main villain over to Magneto and had Magneto be the final bad guy. And I'm just...tired of that. It was kind of clever when they did it in X-Men 2, but by the time of Days of Future Past, Magneto betraying everybody and turning bad was not just predictable, but boring. Which is sad, because the future scenes between him and Xavier were pretty damn great.

The other thing about it is that I wish it had been Kitty Pryde who had been sent back in time instead of Wolverine. I get why they did it — Wolverine is way more popular, plus they can use the '70s setting — but Kitty was so integral to the original storyline, just giving her a minor role in the movie seems a damn shame.

So I'd lump this in with the "good, but not great" movies section.

Edited by alliterator on Sep 24th 2019 at 10:53:13 AM

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
chasemaddigan Do you has what it takes to join the Homestarmy?
Do you has what it takes to join the Homestarmy?
Sep 24th 2019 at 1:11:36 PM

My guess for the Magneto turn in DOFP was to do some sort of Hourglass Plot. Future Erik and Xavier started as enemies fighting over their ideological differences, only to become allies again to fight the Sentinels. 70's Erik and Xavier started as allies who team up to fight the Sentinels, only to become enemies again due to their ideological differences. It's supposed to be sort of a reflection there.

Of course, it becomes kind of ridiculous when each successive film decides what side Magneto's on based on a coin flip.

Sep 24th 2019 at 2:50:19 PM

That manifests in the shape of a Phoenix.........

Just like at the end of X2, 16 years ago.

slimcoder Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Sep 24th 2019 at 2:50:48 PM

So the Phoenix then.

Can you see all of me? Walk into my mystery. Do you remember me? Capture you or set you free I am all. I am all... I am all of me

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