Darling In the FRANXX (Trigger/ A-1 Pictures collaboration)

Obviously, a series ranting about how every person that lives with them is sheeple would be really stupid.

But when your villains are basically robotic asexuals alongside androgynous persons trying to erradicate gender while the heroes are cisgender...you're calling for accusations of bigotry, mainly transphobia (albeit, it's more about people that don't identify as neither male or female than trans people exactly, there must be a term for that)

edited 12th May '18 10:52:29 PM by KazuyaProta

Something I don't think anyone's really mentioned is the implication having a physical reproductive system is an absolute requirement for piloting a Franxx.

Although apparently it doesn't need to be 100% functional if Zero Two is any indication.

I wonder if it's an actual requirement for the piloting process, or if Franxx built it in purposely for his own agenda.

What? Since you made it clear you aren't talking about couples then there's When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace, Kiznaiver, and Little Witch Academia from Trigger alone that fits the bill.

Geez, I go to sleep and suddenly you guys fill four pages with this discussion. At least you're all being civil, that's more than I can say for most other fandoms.

@ Kazuya Prota: You're trying to look too hard into something that isn't there.

The whole point of the Nines isn't that they are genderless, therefore are evil. Its that they are being dicks about their position, saying that not having any sort of emotions and gender are inherently superior, while wanting to have children biologically is inherently inferor. Its fitting that the Ikuno, the gay girl of the group, is the one that slaps their leader.

And saying that Stoicism is better for people is really fucking creepy and totatlitarianist, dude. Its no wonder YHVH is your avatar....

edited 13th May '18 6:36:50 AM by Demongodofchaos2

I’ll confess that I dislike it when people say that someone is “reading too much into it” - it often seems like a shield to discourage analysis one doesn’t like. If you disagree with the reading, then feel free to say why, but don’t say that someone is wrong to make it - that’s pretty rude and dismissive.

That said, I do think it’s a bit callous to say that it would be a good thing if we were “sexless robots”. I certainly understand those who don’t enjoy sex and sexual topics and don’t want them as part of their lives - that’s a perfectly valid choice, and no one should have that forced on them. However, I think we need to remember that many people DO value it, and for many people (myself include) applying the term “robots” to human beings is rather unpleasant. Stoicism has its virtues, but that doesn’t make it inherently superior to all other philosophies, and to say that we’d be better off without sex is ALSO rude and dismissive to people who do value it.

In short, please be respectful to the views of others on this thread, and do not dismiss them simply because you disagree with them.

Stoicism IRL isn't even that anti-sex anti-emotion. It calls more for control of them than outright eradication, that media don't know the difference is other thing.

That don't change that In IRL, the cisgenders are the ones that do act like if they're superior to people that aren't. Reality Context matter.

If I did a show about how the Muslims did take over Europe and turned it into a sexist dystopia, I would be rightfully accused of bigotry.

edited 13th May '18 9:28:49 AM by KazuyaProta

We have a version of that already. It's called The Handmaid's Tale.

I mean if I did a story where Europe is a dystopia because the evil Muslims that are all sexist monsters.

I know that The Handmaids Tale exist, I mean if a European non-muslim someone did a version of it with muslims as the oppressors.

You see, someone writing a story where Christians take over the world and create a dystopia is not necessarily bigoted (even if it make me groan in annoyance) unless it does set in up in a really offensive way.

A story written for a white european about how Muslims and Catholics want return the world to the middle ages with the heroes being Secular atheists would be really bigoted

edited 13th May '18 9:48:17 AM by KazuyaProta

I understand that, but my primary point of concern was how you said that you thought having us "sexless robots" would be a good thing.

3 pages you know what I'm just gonna get away from this place for a while.....

What the hell is going on in this thread?

Seriously, no APE isn't opposing genders because it's so woke, and it doesn't support non-binary genders any more than binary ones. They want to stamp out the whole spectrum together with sexuality as a whole since they find it "messy" and "disgusting" and because gender-identity runs afoul of their goal of promoting conformity.

The world that APE created is one without emotions or human relationships. Where people have no need for each other, and live without any meaningful connections. A vision so horrible, the word "dystopia" doesn't seem strong enough.

The main philosophical conflict of the show is between forces trying to stamp out humanity our of humans and those who see it as something precious. And given what we learned about APE this episode, this makes more and more sense.

Also, I'm not really a big Kokoro fan, but damn, i found some of the comments about her pretty disturbing. Here we have a child solider, taught that he only purpose in life is to fight for the sake of things she doesn't really know or understand and that her fate is to eventually die and be forgotten as just a statistic. Then she learns that she is capable of much more - of creating life - something that will outlast her and be a proof of her existence. I don't want to sound too harsh, but it takes a profound lack of empathy to not see why she would find this concept appealing, and sympathize with her.

Bit disappointment that Hiro and Zero Two didn't get married this episode, but oh well. Zero Two is a good artist tho. Also, Hiro is growing horns -fuck yeah, called it! - which makes me think about what Zero Two later, about being infertile. She's probably genetically incompatible with humans, but what about another hybrid? I'm not giving up on the prospect of horned babies just yet.

On another note, we've seen some mischievousness, and even harshness (when talking to 9's captain) from Zero Two, which gives me hope that the cool Zero Two isn't totally gone.

APE went to talk shit to the Princess and got ripped to shreds for their trouble -serves them right. Despite their confidence, the Princess doesn't seem to worried about them. Also, interesting to see that Koryuu are capable of using technology. When we add to that the fact that APE are apparently just "human wannabes", it becomes clear that Koryuu probably are. Can't wait to hear the backstory here.

The end narration makes it pretty likely that shit is going down next episode.

Calm down. The big issue here isn't whether APE are or not opposing gender, nothing in the show has openly made either point yet. The issue here is that this is a very ugly case of Unfortunate Implications, since the only non-binary pairings in the show are the villains, who are fighting against a group of heteronormative (plus one tragic lesbian and a boy who's at best, bisexual) teenagers, and whose first openly villainous act was a speech about how outdated genders are in the society they're creating. It kinda sounds bad, especially alongside the other messages the show has been flying thus far.

Personally, I think it's more a case of poor writing leading into a very unfortunate situation rather than an actual, intentional thing, but it's still something to be discussed either way.

edited 13th May '18 7:45:23 PM by TheLovecraftian

Ikuno continues to beat up Alpha Nine.

Honestly, at the risk of sounding tone-deaf, I've never really understood the whole drama behind gender politics and the like. I mean, I see that it is a touchy subject, but I never thought it would end up a minefield in this day and age. And that's all I'll say about my thoughts on the subject for fear of offending people.

Anyways, I gotta say that I am really enjoying this one. After Kiznaiver and LWA, I was starting to grow skeptical of Trigger's talent, but this show has restored much of my faith in them.

Anyway, we all know that APE is Evil In-Universe. I am not disputing that, I mean that the general concept is still akward.

Also. Happy Mothers day Kokoro. I know that you want to hear that

This

edited 13th May '18 9:11:39 PM by KazuyaProta

Its Trigger and A-1, remember that.

Most of Triggers Main staff generally don't work on even the episodes trigger produces, they're off doing much bigger projects for the studio (Kazuki Nakashima, for instance).

Sorry, didn't even notice I was bringing agitation to this calm and measured discussion.

It's not really Unfortunate Implications if you have twist things very far to accommodate them. Nine Alpha isn't bad because he's non-binary , he's bad because he's an callous asshole who wants to force his views on everyone.. That squad 9 has non-binary piloting configurations is largely incidental to the scene. To try and make Nine Alpha into some kind of champion of non-binary people is almost hilariously wrongheaded.

I think the writing is fine. Lot's of reactions that I find unwarranted tho.

Did you happen to see the post I made about not being dismissive of others' readings of the show?

Because I'd like to restate that here.

In any case, I'd like you to consider this line of reasoning - the Nines are the only characters we see whose piloting configurations are reversed (ergo, not conforming to "traditional" gender roles), and they are treated as bad guys. And while the show isn't necessarily having the characters say "They don't conform to traditional gender roles, so they must be evil!", it is framing that reversal as sinister, since it's only being done by the bad guys. It's not stated directly in the text (yet - we'll see how that works out), but the subtext is still there.

It's not like I'm pulling this out of my ass - this is a pretty basic method of media analysis.

edited 13th May '18 9:52:01 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Blondie doesn't mind getting pegged, I respect that.

Would any of the guys on the MC side get pegged? Probably not, maybe Mitsuru.

I like that about the 9's.

edited 13th May '18 10:09:01 PM by slimcoder

Oh, I've read it. I just didn't comply, because I don't share the sentiment. If I find a reading to be lacking, I'll dismiss it.

By this same logic one could argue that the show is framing adulthood as sinister, since all the adults are manipulating and taking advantage of the kids. But I don't think anyone would argue that the show has some kind of anti-adulthood stance.

In general I'm not a fan of the "the bad guy is x, therefore the show is condemning x (even though x is not why he's bad)!" type of interpretation. It's way to blunt and relies on mental shortcuts to reach a conclusion. Too often what a show really is saying just get drowned in the outrage.

I too share that mindset of yours, it could potentially risk more of extreme political correctness, and it could thyme the definition of diversity...which implies that bad white guys are the only good thing to do, or heterosexual cis people.

At least depending on how the writing is done.

Ya know I'd be less harsh if the cast was just generally more interesting.

We have reached the crux of Kokoro & Mitsuru's character development & all I feel is a deadpan "Alright that was a thing, what else is next & please let it be more entertaining"

I mean I dislike Kokoro but it has nothing to do with misogyny or sexism, I just think she's a rather dull character.

Well, for starters, the idea that all adults are manipulating the kids is incorrect - if you'll recall, the old woman (implied to be Zorome's mom) was painted more as a passive participant in their society, and by implication, most of the normal people are the same. Really, it's APE who are the true manipulators here, with everyone else as their victims. So no, claiming that you could frame it as "adults are bad" is incorrect.

Look, when it comes to coding, it's a matter of how many of a certain subgroup are represented, and how. If, for example, a show only has one black character, and they are portrayed as a violent criminal, then that's effectively all black people are in the world of the show. But if there are other black characters who are portrayed as heroic, then it becomes more varied. It's not quite that simple - there is the question of playing into stereotypes, for one thing - but that's the general gist of it, as I understand it.

So I ask you this : why would the writers make it so that the only ones who reverse the traditional piloting configuration - again, not conforming to gender roles - are the bad guys?

edited 13th May '18 10:34:09 PM by KarkatTheDalek

x3 & ×4

You completely missed Karkat's point.