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In regards to Tsumugi, it's important to remember that we're talking about the "real-fiction" Tsumugi who created the killing game solo, not the "real-world" Tsumugi who either created the game in tandem with Team DR or wasn't involved in its creation at all.
All of this nonsense (except the Chapter 5 debacle) makes sense from the perspective of Team DR, because it was done for the sake of killing game entertainment.
And in regard to the revival/recasting thing, it's likely Team DR had been sitting on that idea for years, and instituted it in season 53 because they finally had the opportunity to make it believable. In my headcanon, they were banking on specifically Kaede being the person chosen, because she's the only one they could have plausibly "revived".
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that's probably why I find V3 as my favorite in the series, just balls to the walls crazy with the best set of characters.
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I love thinking about how absolutely nuts the franchise must have gotten in 53 titles. Like. Tsumugi dresses up like Junko when she visits Motherkuma, which implies that Junko was meant to have a role in her script before it went off the rails so hard. Which in turn implies that 53 games later, they're still flogging the dead horse of their original villain. Junko is still involved in every DR entry. Somehow.
Which is, of course, how it goes in horror. Horror is defined by its iconic villains. It's not Friday the 13th without Jason. It's not The Ring without Sadako. It's not Halloween without Michael Myers. Junko is Monokuma is Junko is Danganronpa.
By this point in the series, Junko's probably been a clone, a demon, a time-traveled past version of herself brought into the future, a cyborg, a zombie, a zombie cyborg, etc. As well as having had plenty of appearances where the explanation for how she came back was pushed off into a future entry that never emerged because the creative team changed and they decided to go in a different direction.
She's been revealed to have been an alien this whole time and then subsequently revealed to have not been an alien this whole time because that's dumb.
Makoto running into the Future Foundation announcing, "Somehow, Junko has returned!" and then that's the entire explanation.
"It's Junko's wacky sister!" "What, Mukuro?" "No, the other double-secret extra sister that has heretofore never been mentioned but is now going to be extremely important to the plot of Danganronpa 19!"
It's just. It's a lot of fun thinking about the kinds of bullshit that might have been in 53 Danganronpa titles. At some point, you'd imagine they would have figured out that it's better for the long-term viability of the franchise to stop killing her at the end of each entry. But it's funnier if they never did, and legit just had to come up with a new way to revive her every time.
The Future Foundation ultimately succeeds in restoring civilization but then Junko carries out the Even More Most Tragic Event in Human History, colloquially known as The Tragedy 2: Tragedy Harder.
Just. Straight up western comic books with this shit.
Along with coming up with, fucking hell, 848 Ultimate Talents to fill the rosters of each Killing Game. The Danganronpa wiki in Tsumugi's reality must be insane.
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I think you are forgetting that Tsumugi dressed up as Junko after chapter 5 when the Hope's peak plot came in.
Maybe they try to reboot the franchise every time but then something unexpected happens in the plot and they fall back to their plan B of tying back to Hope’s Peak.
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
I do prefer to think that Kokichi’s plan is completely unscripted, as it’s more fun that way.
A few years ago I was writing a fic based on the audition process and the mechanics of the show in general, though I never ended up finishing it—other stuff got in the way and I just had a hard time figuring out what I wanted to do. It’s still getting likes even today, though, so I might go back to it. Could maybe use some advice here, potentially.
Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Jan 11th 2024 at 12:41:58 PM
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It more like that Kaede's idea to kill the mastermind was influenced by the flashback light so that Tsumugi could kill Rantaro to start the killing game without issue.
After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. Let's give it EVERYTHING we've got! It's...PUNISHMENT TIME
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Returning to Kokichi's plan for a moment, I kind of glossed over an important point three days ago, but this is the real reason he had to have asked about tie votes in chapter 4.
Because of this rule, if at least four voters and exactly two suspects exist, the voters who aren't suspects can deliberately split their votes so that the best the killer can do is force a tie. However, this doesn't apply if the identity of one of the voters is unknown.
(And on top of that, Maki is still a theoretical suspect as brought up earlier, so the "exactly two suspects" part also fails.)
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in other words thanks to himiko she screwed up the plan big time.
That's assuming that Kokichi planned out his actions in the fifth case in advance. It's more likely that he only asked that in the event that he and Gonta got an equal number of votes in that trial.
The amount of foresight required to have predicted Maki's involvement in the next murder, which was a big cornerstone of the plan, is a little far-fetched even for a series known to include 5D chess play at many instances. Then again, Kokichi had the time to write out an entire book of his lines for Kaito to read, which he couldn't have done while poisoned, so it stands to reason that he intended for Kaito to kill him all along. Then Maki intervened, however, forcing Kaito to ad lib everything that Ouma could not have seen coming. So originally, the case would've just been a question of "who's under the press" before devolving into something a lot more complex, much to the chagrin of Monokuma.
The question then is, how exactly did Kokichi expect Kaito to get on board. Were it not for Maki, he would have practically zero bargaining power over him. On top of Kokichi being untrustworthy by default, Kaito just would've lacked the incentive other than potentially tossing a wrench in the killing game at the risk of being subjected to a painful execution (turned out to be anything but painful but that's besides the point).
Edited by Neoshi on Jan 15th 2024 at 2:57:01 AM
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The script he wrote for Kaito is why this couldn't have been a spur of the moment plan. The question isn't whether Kokichi planned the whole thing in advance; it's how far back this plan goes.
Then again, given the nature of the series and his character, it's possible that he had multiple concurrent setups and only settled on using the press once the situation called for it.
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Multiple concurrent setups makes the most sense to me. Kokichi is constantly scheming, so he seems the type to premeditate a bunch of schemes in advance. And he's been thinking about how to fuck over Monokuma for weeks.
I don't think he planned on dying but I do think he considered it to be a viable outcome of his takeover - And if he finds himself in a predicament where it has to happen, he'd want it to die as spitefully towards the Killing Game as possible.
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Really makes one wonder what was going on inside his head during Gonta's case. I like to imagine he initially truly did intend to end the game early by having the blackened win, before realising mid-trial "hold on a minute, I can do better than that" and switching on his mastermind persona.
Exactly where he falls on the morality scale is a point of contention, but his Thou Shalt Not Kill D.I.C.E. rule and his attitude towards the Ultimate Assassin makes it pretty clear-cut I reckon. Hypocritical, all things considered, but his last act alive shows that he's nothing if not remorseful for all the deaths he caused up to that point.
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ultimately he's on the gray side of morality and it was clear to me he wanted Gonta to argue back then when that didn't work had to put another plan in motion.
Kokichi came very close to being voted as the culprit though, so it's not like the plan itself was doomed.
Though I also want to mention that him noticing Gonta's obliviousness is an additional factor that might have prompted him to change course at the end. Think about it, Gonta is selfless and harbors a great love towards the other students. After the Voting Time, having him gut-punched with the reveal that he killed Miu, and being forced to watch everyone else be punished because of him would undeniably be a Fate Worse than Death, especially if Monokuma intentionally withheld details on his motive post-trial for despair purposes, and I think Kokichi knew this. If Gonta was aware of what he did in the Virtual World and why, his identity as the culprit would not have stung him quite as much.
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what Kokichi wanted at the chapter 4 trial was a stalemate and if Gonta had is memory it would have work with Kiibo, Shuichi, Gonta and himself voting for Gonta and the others voting against him thus locking the killing game from working.
But the real mastermind Himiko was two steps ahead.![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
I am admittedly interested in getting another game purely to see how the Team Danganronpa handled all of this. Some people might be inclined to think they were totally in control for most of the game, but I find it more fun to imagine there was a lot of shouting and finger pointing behind the scenes.
I'm thinking of something along the lines of The Death of Stalin, particular this scene:
Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Mar 30th 2024 at 7:36:31 AM
Oh God! Natural light!
Making it so that there still are questions left unanswered really does take away from the epic finality of the ending. Kind of seems like Spike Chunsoft were hedging their bets, enabling them to address the ending's uncertainties were they to decide on making a fourth (playable) killing game after all.
That being said, I wouldn't be at all opposed to a new DR game, in fact I'd welcome it, as it'd be the first one I could experience properly (I've a bad habit of spoiling things for myself y'see. Things I wouldn't predict or imagine being part of a fanbase for, so now that I am, the situation's different this time around).
So let me play along and assume the mastermind was lying. My theory on the truth of the situation is that the killing game we saw in V3 was a fan recreation of the last ever Danganronpa.
But of course, it's not unreasonable to think that not every person was swayed by Shuichi's words. Indeed, that's almost certainly what happened: Some people refused to accept the termination of their favourite franchise, and so they started an underground cabal dedicated to continuing it by whatever means necessary.
Moreover, Danganronpas 1 through 52 were likely already archived, whereas the nature of V3 meant that all official records of it were destroyed by the newly-enlightened authorities shortly after it was over. This would make V3 highly elusive and sought after in the realm of stubborn fans.
And what of the evidence? Well, during the epilogue, attention is shed on this line: "My plan was such a flawless copy, it even failed right at the end... So I should be able to hold my head up high as a cosplaycat criminal, right?" Shuichi thinks this might imply that Hope's Peak etc. wasn't fictional, which suggests Tsumugi merely imitating Junko, whose plans also failed at the end, but I think "flawless copy" refers to something more literal: a literal "copy" of V3 itself.
And this is because of the "cosplaycat criminal" part of the line. Why would Tsumugi refer to herself as a "criminal", in a world that let more than fifty death games slide at that point? If she knew what she was doing was already made illegal, perhaps. Add on the fact that Kaede recalls being shoved into a shady vehicle against her own will rather than auditioning... yeah. The tapes we've seen of the characters, eager to start killing, show the ones who were a part of the original V3.
That leaves us with the question of what the next game would look like. My guess is that its setting is where all the criminal fans congregate in secret. They'd call it... say, "Danganpolis", modelled after Towa City. They kidnap citizens and forcibly make them participate in these games for their own amusement. The game's main conflict would be an infiltration attempt gone wrong or something or other. Given the focus on illicit activities, I suppose the theme of justice and injustice would be explored this time around.
Edited by Neoshi on Apr 9th 2024 at 3:57:09 AM
In-universe V3 is such a clusterfuck that it's honestly hilarious going through the game a second time.
The opening gaffe where they accidentally released everyone without programming in their characters yet.
Tsumugi's first Motive is so bad that nobody bites, forcing her to threaten them all with murder. And when they still get no takers, she has to resort to staging the first murder herself and pretending someone else did it. Just. Could not get her players to play her fucking Killing Game.
The Monokubs are the height of incompetence with the aforementioned gaffe. Switching around the Motive videos by accident. Killing each other. And some of the worst acting you've ever seen in your life, with Monotaro especially walking around saying shit like, "According to the backstory, [loredump]".
Tsumugi herself is kind of a shit writer. Like. Hey, Tsumugi? I know everyone likes Genocide Jack and thinks she's a cool character but why would there be an assassin on the colony ship? Like, the people who made the ship know she's an assassin. They built that assassin lab for her. So. Why? Child Caregiver makes sense, but why would there be someone whose only job is to kill the other Last Survivors of Humanity, Tsumugi? Why would that be a thing?
Kinda feels like you just picked a character at random to slap a Genocide Jack reveal on without thinking about what it does to the integrity of your worldbuilding, Tsumugi.
Angie points out that it's weird that her art lab is staffed with specifically her favorite art supplies and. Like. How did they know? How did they know her exact tastes and preferences? The answer is because Tsumugi created her but, in-universe, how did they know? Oh, wait, no, Monotaro's got this one. "UM UM UM I'm not very good at improvising!" There you go, that's your answer.
Leaving all kinds of Science Looking shit lying around Keebo's lab without even realizing they literally gave their actors a bunch of deadly weapons to break out with.
The extremely half-assed retcon when Bad Writer Tsumugi has to explain Kaito's illness and comes up with, "Um, the apocalyptic meteors that I wrote, I guess they brought SPACE DISEASES. That's a plot point now. Kaito has Space Cancer. That's a thing that was always part of the plot from the very beginning. Yes."
And, of course, the cavalcade of catastrophe that is chapter 5, where Monokuma legit loses control of the Killing Game for the first time in Danganronpa history.
The in-universe V3 reality show is such an absolute shitshow. It's amazing. They explicitly tell us that this is not the first time they've ever done a Danganronpa like this and I'm honestly not sure if I believe them. Because. Wow.
EDIT: Also, I'm still mad that they never got to use the Necronomicon. What a fascinating Motive that winds up going absolutely nowhere. They could have resurrected one of the dead characters!
"But how can we bring a character back from the dead?" Through the miracle of Hollywood Magic, using a mystical art known as recasting. So now we have this character back. Probably Kaede because she's most plot-relevant. But she isn't exactly right because it's not really Kaede. This is an unwitting improv LARP, so she would be a new actor's portrayal of Kaede.
The personality wouldn't be quite right. She might say things that the original Kaede wouldn't say. Maybe she isn't Shuichi's bestie this time around. Something. She's. Just. Different. Even though she's "Kaede back from the grave", she wouldn't be the same person.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 11th 2024 at 6:55:10 AM
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