Fate/Grand Order

x4 So, like Kefka in Final Fantasy VI after the midpoint of the game but with a "how dare you puny beings go against us" sort of thing?

Edited by Altris on Jul 1st 2020 at 5:13:32 AM

No, no, Atlantis is completely stagnant. Remember, the dates given are when the Lostbelts diverged. Atlantis diverged in 12,000 BC and functionally seems to have been stopped progressing (obviously) some time in the Bronze age. The people in it, though, are by this point thoroughly beyond help. People should not fervently embrace being blown up if that's what the gods want. Definitely no room for free thought there...

We really need some sort of consistent spoiler policy because I don't know how much of the JP plot I can really talk about, let alone without spoiler tagging.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jul 1st 2020 at 1:12:42 PM

I think the NA plot is fair game, maybe excluding LB 2 since that’s still kind of new, but anything beyond that is probably spoiler territory.

Probably a good idea. The main reason I don't feel any guild for squashing Lostbelts is that the entire purpose of the trees is to siphon mana and cosmic radiation in order to provide for the descent of the Foreign God. Who, when they finally show up, happens to also be Beast VII, and would be way stronger if we hadn't been speeding along the destruction of these trees in the process. Hell, they're far more limited than they should be at that point because there's exactly one functional Lostbelt left—the Tree in 6 is destroyed some time in... I think 4?

i think Patxi put it best: if there's a future we know of that people can smile, we have to do whatever we can to take it back

because, at the very least in lostbelt 1, the lostbelts are fucked beyond repair, and it's resulted in realities where nearly everyone is miserable and/or doesnt have hope anymore.

i'm sure future lostbelts make things more complicated, but... as horrible as it is, we need to make sure there's a future for someone, rather than no one.

From what’s been seen and heard the lostbelts that are fucked up beyond any hope of repair are 1 (can’t really do much with how much of a death world it is there) 6 and 7 (exact details are unknown but Woodime states that those two can’t be allowed to become the new history The rest of the lostbelts have their major problems but not to the point that they can’t be fixed.... especially since we typically deal with the source of the stagnation on the way to destroying the Trees.

In order:

2 can't support a large population anyway. 3 we don't actually get rid of QSH, and he's the limiting factor on the Lostbelt. Nobody is LEFT in 4 by the time we get to the end of it. 5 is theoretically salvageable if you can somehow undo millennia of brainwashing? However much population there is, anyway... 6 is so much of a problem that the Crypters actually destroyed the tree in it. It's still there, so... yeah. Dunno about 7. Then again, that seems to be deliberately mysterious. Half expect it to be the Land of Steel.

On top of the fundamental problem that once the trees are destroyed, the Lostbelt is no longer pinned to the world and the trees are the actual threat.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jul 1st 2020 at 2:06:12 PM

4 was fine until Ashiya Douman fucked with Arjuna Over Gods and made him into a monster. Before then, it was a near Utopia, which is why Pepe is so furious and determined to kill Douman for ruining it.

Yeah, but that has nothing to do with us, so it's a moot point. Our actions can't change anything.

Except with Over Gods killed and Douman gone, Pepe broke off his Enemy Mine with us since he said it was possible to rebuild, and couldn't let us prematurely end the Lostbelt. Just like what happened with Skadi. Some of them can rebuild, we just don't let them.

And shouldn't let them, because that means a much stronger Beast VII, who's not going to leave them alone, but my point there was that we couldn't do anything to prevent the screwed up state from forming in the first place.

"Can it rebuild from nearly nothing?" is a different question to "should it".

Edited by RainehDaze on Jul 1st 2020 at 2:18:59 PM

You say that first part like Beast 7 isn’t already strong enough to kill everyone on the planet. The only reason she didn’t was because Woodime dented her ego.

People are saying certain Lostbelt could be rebuilt as a better, but weren't they LB in the first place because there was no hope?

That is the scale of the problem we're facing, yes, that even a severely weakened and hobbled version who used a sabotaged tree, and only has one extra Lostbelt to go draw from, is an existential threat. But that's any Beast for you.

The argument is that with external influence, they can start moving again rather than being foregone conclusions. It gets a lot more confusing though because they're reliant on something that would then itself be from a nonexistent branch of time... not that causality seems to make all that much difference here.

4 would probably end up unmoving again, though, even if very nice. Not exactly desirable.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jul 1st 2020 at 2:26:36 PM

Lostbelts were stuck in a stagnant situation where the same process repeated over and over with no hope of change.

LB 2, LB 4, and if Wodime had succeeded LB 5 had the possibility of changing and thus becoming valid timelines as they were no longer stuck in the cycle of stagnation.

LB 5 can summon countless servants precisely because the human order is still strong there, and humans could pick themselves up if given the chance. Thats why theres such bountiful Counter Force there, and it was what Hades and the other Olympians were planning to do by making their relationship with humanity more equal when Zeus defeated them.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jul 1st 2020 at 6:37:39 AM

So much for spoiler tags.

Thanks for the edit.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jul 1st 2020 at 2:38:29 PM

If the world of LB 4 could so easily be fucked over, then that's enough reason to reject it.

It's like having a house on the edge of a cliff that can fall down at any moment.

It can be the best fucking house in the world, but no one's gonna want to live there.

It's the problem with humans living in the Age of Gods. The gods are gonna fuck up the humans.

I still have no fucking idea why Arjuna decided that listening to fucking Limbo was a good idea.

'Cause he's a goddamn tool.

And that happened in the myth as well, if Krishna hadn't convinced him to keep fighting, the entire Kurukshetra War might've been avoided because Arjuna figured killing his own family is kind of a step too far.

I find it weird we know so little about LB 4 before Douman go his claws in Arjuna, other than Pepe thought it was a Utopia. Like what made it get pruned in the first place then?

Paradise = no progress.

Thats it.

Also to be clear shitty timelines can become the foundation of reality alongside paradise ones if it happens in a QTL.

Fate Extra anime is all about a tree based around Extra where the timeline was perma fucked for over a thousand years and mankind was almost extinct. And this was the default timeline.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jul 1st 2020 at 7:56:15 AM

Or rather, shitty timelines can continue so long as there's possibility of change and things going different ways. What the whole pruning phenomenon conserves is variability. A world that's doomed is pruned; the conclusion is foregone. A world that has entered an unchanging utopia is pruned; nothing will ever change. This is supposedly something to do with a conservation of energy but that's just technobabble to justify a kind of funny multiverse cosmology (and I guess to explain why Zelretch doesn't have unlimited power).

Now, it gets confusing when this is supposedly confined to the World because the ultimate fate of humanity, courtesy of Gil (apparently), is to leave the Earth and thus spread out across the galaxy. Odd, really.

LB 1 tried to survive without its Tree (as Ivan completely refused to let it take root for as long as he was the Emperor of Russia.) and look how that turned out...

First one to get pruning-designation.

Edited by TitanJump on Jul 1st 2020 at 5:03:45 PM

If it hadn't taken root it would've ended all the same. The trees are the only reason the Lostbelts were dragged back into existence.