Ultimate Marvel

Hank just has the consequence of not being as major as Spidey & Mr. Fantastic.

Its very sad really.

Because people assume that as its so infamous it must be important & ignore everything else cause they seem its not as big a deal in comparison.

edited 23rd Jan '18 10:05:15 PM by slimcoder

(Actually, you could make a collage out of pictures of Reed Richards being a massive dick to people, including but not limited to hitting his wife and son. Mind you, the examples I've found via Google images were probably taken out of context at least somewhat, but still...)

edited 23rd Jan '18 10:08:43 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Hell, the Spider-Man incedent is worse since it nearly killed two innocent people (MJ was pregnant at the time) and Peter didn't have the excuse of having his mind screwed with.

While Hank was having a mental breakdown which was partially contributed by Janet's emotional abuse towards him.

But Spidey is the bigger hero so he doesn't get any shit thrown at him.

Almost forgot to address this point which is bullshit.

“As for the film, there's an even more important issue: the ultimates is a drama and the film is a comedy. Comparing them is like comparing Adam West and the Dark Knight trilogy.“

Bitch please; the real comparison is like comparing The LEGO Batman Movie to Batman v. Superman. Take a guess which is film is more loved among the Batman fans and which one is as crappy as Ultimates for thinking making heroes darker and edgier is always a good idea?

Now on the current conversation, yeah it is definitely due to the two characters popularity where writers would intentionally forget this moment. I mean, WTF. Disney has the balls to acknowledge that Uncle Scrooge fucking raided a native village with no problem, yet Marvel wouldn’t do the same with Peter and Reed because they are popular? And no the “comedy” and “drama” excuse won’t fly seeing how The Life and Times of Scrooge Mc Duck skirt towards the drama side of things.

Regarding the Hulk, like I said, while this version is surely rightly controversial, at least he works far better in the 'hated and feared' aspect than his 616-counterpart.

He actually IS a monster.

If Hulk is actually a monster, then it means that literally everyone is justified in hating him. Including the audience.

@Big K except people, for whatever reason, liked the Ultimates. Not that Snyder's Superman or even his Batman is remotely on the same level as the Ultimates. He at least limited Bruce's victims to human traffickers and mercenaries.

The Ultimates have fallen out of favor since being once generally well liked.

Doesn't help that its a comic where the heroes are total assholes & nobody wants to read such a comic in this day & age.

Constant jackassery no longer equals complexity after all.

edited 24th Jan '18 5:32:55 AM by slimcoder

That they ever did want to do that amazes me.

@ 157 Well yeah, that was kind of my point. It's actually justified to hate him, as opposed to the 616-Hulk

As far as I'v checked, the Ultimates did not go around trying to kill other heroes.

That seems like missing the point. Maybe it makes more sense to hate the Hulk...but only because it’s now impossible to like him. And I don’t think that the Hulk being hated is necessarily the most important thing about the character, nor is that hatred necessarily supposed to make sense. Besides, I think there’s already plenty of reason to be scared of him.

Well this got ugly.

...Big K was a high schooler when the Ultimates comics first came out. That was some time ago. They obviously aren't a high schooler anymore.

Note the word "was". Past tense.

edited 24th Jan '18 8:34:40 AM by M84

Ahahahaha.

Oh wow.

I'll be happy to continue defending the UU, but please let us not step down at personal levels, shall we?

There’s a difference between using swear words to refer to the work and personally insulting another person here.

Besides, if you stoop to ad hominem attacks it's not just rude, it's a clear sign that you've lost the argument and are scrabbling for a way to shore up your position.

“Big K, you have just said the magic words: high school. Now everything makes sense. It's no wonder that you keep citing your preference for comics, cartoons and films made for kids: it's because you are a kid. I was wrong to ask you to compare the Pym incident with similar ones from actual dramas: you have never seen any. The one from the Ultimates is the only domestic abuse in fiction you have ever saw. You were not ready, and got properly horrified.”

Holy shit! You actually use the kid arguement that only the most desperate of Youtube arguers will make to dissuade an opinion. Yes I first read this story when I was a freshman in high school . . . which was over a decade ago. I grew up to read various comics including the Avengers during the 80s as well as watch a bunch of dramas including the likes of Bojack Horseman (yeah that’s animated but its by far the best drama I have witness in recent years that have given me complex characters, storylines that aren’t isolated, and a great deconstruction on adult animated comedies). And when I re read The Ultimates and compare it to the likes of the classic Avengers comic and Bojack Horseman, its drama is shallow as hell and is just there for shock value rather than advancing the story.

When Hank hit Jan in the original comic it moves along the story arc of the Avengers attempt at revamping the team with fewer members as well as serves as the rising point to Hank’s character arc.

When Bojack was about to commit statutory rape in the 11th episode of season 2 (general rule of thumb the eleventh episodes are always the hard ti watch point of a season for that show), its basically serves to highlight the story that while Bojack does want to change his assholish ways it is extremely difficult for him as he basically regress to his old behaviors and almost did one that he could never turn back from in spite of previous protest. This basically would lead into season 3, the climax of the series, where he basically burned ALL bridges with his old and new friends to the point where he is responsible for getting one of them killed.

What does the Ultimates wife beater plot do . . . nothing. The overall story of the Ultimates is supposed to be an allegory on the whole War of Terroism which uses super heroes as a form of charictures regarding the subject. If you think about the grand scheme of it, aside for being the reason why Hank is discharged from the team and sell his tech to the enemy, it does not have a meaningful impact to the narrative.

So yeah, most of my interest are in cartoons and comics; but its bullshit to assume just because my intrest in said medium automatically means I’m a kid who have not watch a single drama in my life.

You know, being in high school but being able to recognize the Ultimates as edgy garbage instead of "the darkest and most mature thing ever man" is probably a sign of being unusually adult for your age.

From what I can tell The Ultimates success comes from a combination of Mark Miller having a better rep compared to today, the general on purpose assholery of the heroes being a general new concept at the time giving it an illusion of quality, & the from what I saw of the art & read its started the more cinematic realistic pieces of comic-book art which if it was anything like say Jason Fabok's work on Justice League especially during The Darkseid War then the praise must be well-deserved.

Also about the whole "War on Terror", the comic book came out in 2002 so the whole thing was still going on strong then so of course it would be very successful in a time when America was very paranoid & kinda warmongering.

edited 24th Jan '18 7:09:00 PM by slimcoder

Big K, a dramatic scene does not need to have an ultimate impact on the main plot. Four Lines, All Waiting is a frequent thing.

edited 24th Jan '18 7:34:06 PM by GrigorII

You directly insulted a dude by implying he had to be a child to not "get" Ultimates so I don't think you're in a position to be saying that, buddy.