Batman: The Telltale Series

I'm glad you think shooting people in the back, evidently defenseless, too, constitutes a "good vigilante".

Draco.

Leather Pants.

Who here actually said that? As far as I can tell no one has actually said that he was a "good vigilante" just that he is more sympathetic than the Joker in the Villain path.

Honestly, I believe John when he says he 'just went on autopilot' and 'didn't stop until he was safe', which is his excuse for why he shot the woman (along with 'she was reaching for her partner's gun', which might be an excuse or not on his part). John's impulsive, prone to overreacting even when his life isn't seemingly in danger, and he seems genuinely surprised about the details of most of the area. ('[disturbing laughter] Wow. I completely redecorated, didn't I?')

I think it's very likely John is manipulating his story to colour himself in a favourable light, but that doesn't necessarily mean he intentionally murdered the agents in cold blood (and indeed, it seems out-of-touch with the later story in the Vigilante path for him to do so). Of note, the trust John path still ends with Bruce saying he's going to have more questions about the incident later (not that that ever happens, of course).

edited 14th Apr '18 7:57:12 PM by Lavaeolus

x4 Seeing how compelling Bruce's relationship with John/Joker can be does make me a bit disappointed that his relationship with Harvey/Two-Face is not as interesting or fleshed out in comparison.

Well, the John Doe relationship essentially replaces it.

John Doe is a great character.

It's just he's 90% Two Face, 10% Joker

Methinks he's just bitter his choices led to a lot more blood being shed. Vigilante Joker maybe a psychotic murderer but hey, he looks good in leather pants. Also i personally think Vigilante Joker's turn to evil is way more compelling than Villain Joker who is just bummed that Bruce didn't believe him when he killed those guys in self defense so he kills more people to spite Bruce for not believing him that he killed in self defense.

IKR Joker in season 2 is basically Harvey Dent: the Sequel. They both can turn evil because they want to be like Batman. and even their they will remember that change.

Yeah i agree, that was my logic for trusting John, he really really seems horrified at what happened instead of his usual enjoyment of chaos. The fact that he was confused at the gunshot in the back really sent warning signals that John had no idea what he did. It's also not like Bruce completely absolved him since he does say him and John will talk about this. But i guess blowing up a bridge and escaping with a deadly virus put the kibosh on those plans. Also Bruce doesn't check if the bodies were killed due to blunt force trauma which would make the whole thing a little clearer.

Alas, if only Bruce had some sort of demonstrated ability to reconstruct crime scenes and work out what happened within them nigh-perfectly.

Like some sort of mode. A investigative mode? or a Detective Vision? Bruce should talk to Lucius abou-oh right. too soon.

I was sort of expecting a choice where we have to choice to visit the Carnival as Bruce or Batman. i mean if Bruce suited up, he could definitely analyzed the scene. I also wondered how any of us would have treated John as Batman. like everytime i was Batman with John, i always treated him coldly and smashed his phone, but did teach him throw the batarang and told him to be good. It's like being Batman lets players bring out their inner jerk. won't lie as Bruce i supported Harvey but as Batman i let his face get scarred and saved montoya right after a heart to heart.

Bruce does the whole detectivey stuff when Alfred's kidnapped as Bruce, right? I suppose they could have done it so the crime scene, by chance, supported two interpretations (one that favours John and one that doesn't), or leaves John's mental state/thoughts ambiguous. Don't know how well that'd work, though.

Although I don't remember, were the detective, link evidence bits completely dropped for this season? I don't remember any, with the closest being the investigation with Gordon on the Vigilante path. I'm glad the Bat meter thing got dropped; it ended up just kind of giving an excuse to have Batman behave mostly the same regardless of you do in the QTEs. I know if you really screwed them up he'd still die after a while, but still.

edited 15th Apr '18 4:35:27 AM by Lavaeolus

The investigation link thing happens when you investigate Riddler's lair for the first time and need to figure out the puzzle. I don't think it happens again.

Also for S3 as much as it hurt to let Alfred go i hope Tell Tale doesn't railroad us into we are becoming more violent without Alfred Honestly as much as i like Alfred, i feel it's important that Bruce learns to live without him and be more independent plus i still have Tiffany, Avesta, Selina, and maybe Joker to keep me company. I just hope Alfred doesn't become Aunt May a character who overstayed and ultimately became an annoyance.

Another Guy, from all indication, your argument is "If anyone doesn't think John is an irredeemable monster 100% of the time, it's Draco in Leather Pants", which is markedly false. No one in the thread or the game said Vigilante Joker was a good thing for Gothanlm, with Alfred even calling Bruce out on it. But it is a better alternative to John blowing up dozens of buildings, shooting out Gordon's kneecaps, mutilating Bullock, and more.

What? No, he doesn't. Compared to Batman-level tech, John's wearing hockey pads. He's making his own Batarangs, but that's honestly a step down in lethality from if he was toting around an AR-15. Apart from that and a grappling hook, the rest of his stuff is just toned down Joker things. Like, he has a gang, but they're a gang of vigilantes.

Like. Batman-level tech doesn't mean "unstoppable by conventional means and far more deadly than anything conventional arms can match". It means "designed to be significantly less effective at killing people than ordinary arms, because they're meant to be used by a ninja with an aversion to murder". His Batman-inspiration pretty unquestionably makes him less dangerous, not more.

Batman's gear works very well for Batman, but if your goal was to murder a whole bunch of people with zero training or experience, it'd be pretty subpar. That's a feature, not a bug.

Mine was that, plus the fact that John's story requires only one thing to be true: Waller's agents having "shoot on sight" orders. I was entirely willing to believe that. Given what happens later on the bridge, I feel pretty vindicated in that belief.

The fact that John was absolutely drenched in blood also led me to conclude that yes, he probably was swinging a melee weapon around rather than shooting them at range. It's really hard to get that much blood splattered on you when you're firing bullets from twenty feet away.

edited 17th Apr '18 7:55:05 AM by TobiasDrake

Fair point. But at the fight at Ace Chemical, Joker is able to fight on an equal level with Batman albeit a heavily hurt Batman, and the fight ends in a draw or at least a really really close call. Villain Joker despite fighting an unprotected, heavily beaten, and no gadget Bruce, pretty much gets his ass handed to him, or at least compared to Vigilante and is only able to end the fight in a tie thanks to a surprise stab.

Also did i say Batman level tech? Whoops i meant Batman-esque. i mean i'm going to assume future Vigilante Joker will also bring his usual toys,his new Batman-esque gadgets and his Vigilante combat prowess which considering he was able to land a couple of good hits on Bane and managed to singlehandedly capture Waller and fight off the Agency albeit off-screen while Batman was napping in the batcave, WE SHOULD BE VERY AFRAID.

And hey this is comic book logic, if Harley was able to singlehandedly rob a bank and murder everyone in it with just a sledgehammer, Joker can so cause a lot of mayhem with Batman-esque gadgets. Just look at his portable bombs, just a few is able to send everyone during the fight at GCPD running and can cause a lot of damage.

Plus as you said Batman's gadgets are good for a ninja with an aversion to murder, but can you imagine how lethal they would be for a ninja WITHOUT an aversion to murder? if he wanted to he could kill Bruce and/or Alfred in their sleep by sneaking into Wayne manor and grappling his way to their rooms. Or take entire GCPD squads by surprise with Joker Gas filled-smokepellets, he could slice off Batman's arm if Joker gets a clean hit with the Joker-rangs, and imagine how lethal Joker's own Shock pucks set to maximuim voltage would be and it's shown in S1ep 5 that they can shock multiple targets at once. Even his grappling hook can hurt a Venomized Bane.

edited 17th Apr '18 9:55:38 AM by RedHunter543

Yeah, I can imagine, and the answer is, "significantly less lethal than an AR-15". Batman's gear is not relatively easy to kill people with compared to modern firearms and explosives. Again, that's a feature, not a bug.

I would much rather have Joker throwing smoke pellets than hand grenades. I strongly prefer Joker using a grappling hook to sneak into buildings instead of driving a truck full of C-4 through the front door and then detonating it.

A Joker who kidnaps people and makes them deliver forced confessions on You Tube is a problem, but nowhere near as big of a problem as a Joker who shoots up police stations for lulz.

edited 17th Apr '18 11:54:52 AM by TobiasDrake

Yeah Batman gear is less lethal than guns but modified by Joker? they are more creative than guns. Can we agree that the Joker-rangs has the potential to slice Batman's arm in a fight? also you may have misunderstood, i mean what if in the future Joker fills his smoke bombs with Joker gas? yeah it's not exactly C4 but just as deadly. And hey a truck of c4 and grappling hooks aren't mutually exclusive. also doesn't Vigilante Joker have like bombs that are c4 level?

Let me clarify, i think we can both agree Vigilante Joker is way less dangerous than the Villain Joker but in one of my runs, i left Vigilante Joker as nemesis and the post credits scene show that Joker is going to become a more traditional Joker but with Batman-esque gadgets. I'm just speculating what an evil vigilante Joker will do in the future not arguing he's more evil than Villain joker like some people. my guess is that he'll be more Joker-esque but with Jokerized Batman tactics and toys like forcing a corrupt judge to confess his wrong sentences and slicing him up if he admits to condemning innocent people to death, trapping the entire GCPD in their own headquarters by shutting down the power and gassing everyone in it so new cops can move in and be more clean. Basically kinda like Heath Ledger when he killed the old corrupt commissioner which inadvertently let Gordon replace him.

Or a friendly Vigilante Joker might go on surfing contests with Bruce Wayne. or they would chill at Arkham and play GTA. would be a nice outlet for Joker's violent urges.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hush or Clayface was the Bruce Wayne at the end.

Well ever since Tell Tale made Vale a supervillain, every single crazy fan theory is fair game.

I would be happy with Hush as the Big Bad. He's long overdue for that.

The Arkham Series totally wasted him.

A year of surgery just so he could walk past Bruce's receptionist.

It was also some Jack the Ripper shit as he did the surgery on himself (somehow) with strips of flesh taken from other prisoners.

Honestly Hush is a lame villain IMO and he's especially redundant in the Tell Tale verse since Penguin already has traits of Hush such as jealousy of Bruce Wayne, former childhood friend ETC and he makes them work really well , i think most people find it hard to believe it was actually Bruce at the Vigilante Stinger is because it is kinda hard to believe Bruce would actually visit Joker who objectively caused a lot of carnage in one night despite having the best of intentions.

Plus if it was Hush at the stinger shouldn't he have surgical scars from self operating? the one in Arkham had.

Hell Hush was not even original when he first came out. The backstory was stolen from Roman Sionis aka Black Mask.