The problem with DJ as a "subversion" of Han Solo-types, is the same problem that I have with lots of the subversions in the film. Namely that they feel VERY shallow and surface-level to me. It's like "do the exact same thing for like 95% of it, then change one or two things, often in predictable ways, and pretend like it's a brilliant commentary or something." And it got rather tedious imo.
"Oh he's Han, if Han never came back to help" or "he's Lando, if Lando didn't redeem himself" is pretty much the most basic and dull kind of "subversion that you can." And nothing that he did or said made me think that he wouldn't sell them out, there might as well have been a giant neon sign above his character saying "he's going to betray you." Heck LOTS of people called that even before the film came out. Same with Kylo killing Snoke, same with Rey's parents being nobodies, Luke dying, etc.
And as for the "well the film doesn't support his POV," well perhaps not intentionally. But again this is where the "this movie might have ideas, but it didn't think them through very well" idea comes from. DJ is pretty much the only character who 100% wins, who gets everything that he wants, and who gets away Scott free in the end. So whether the movie intended to or not, it is sending the message that "well his way does work apparently because he gets away with everything and no consequences, no other character does that." Again the execution is flawed.
I don't really see any similarities between Traviss and Wendig, other than them both being controversial. Anyway, it's a shame about him getting fired. I seem to be one of the few people who didn't have issues with his writing and the reasoning behind his firing is awful.
If butting heads with fans was Marvel’s determining factor, far more hostile Dan Slott and Nick Spencer would’ve been fired a long time ago.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 12th 2018 at 3:03:31 AM
Edited by alliterator on Oct 12th 2018 at 3:09:37 AM
Definitely. You'd expect the down on his luck dude to work with them no problem, but it turns out there's a reason that DJ is locked up in prison, especially when he wants a keepsake as payment and ends up betraying the Resistance for nothing except money and then says "Well that's just the way life goes."
The part where he returns Rose’s keepsake because he only needed it for a brief practical purpose is meant to build hope that he’s got a good side.
Is there, I don't know, some sort of proof for your statement?
I don't remember if it was on here or another site but I remember people pointing out that killing Luke was something that could happen when people were saying that Mark Hamill being signed up for the next movie meant they couldn't kill Luke off.
Edited by doineedaname on Oct 12th 2018 at 6:52:27 AM
It was guessed as possible, but that doesn’t make it the obvious course of the plot. I saw the film knowing from spoilers that Luke would die, but I didn’t know how he’d die, so there was still plenty of suspense as to the question of his fate.
Ace Pilot
I kinda expected Snoke to get murdered maybe just not in the second film, but if Kylo was truly a Vader fan he would have most certainly acted as a Sith even if he was not one in name and murder his master when he does not need further guidance.
"When I offered to make Norea my third back-up girlfriend she just glared at me and started throwing things at me.." Renee Costa
fuckANN
just because you are a fan of something doesn't give you ownership of it
The fans are the ones that pay the bills so in a since we do have a certain level of ownership over it
You're going to pay a price for every bloody thing you do and everything you don't do. You don't get to choose to not pay a price.
Also, fans don't pay the bill. The casual viewer pays the bill. Do you really think there are over a billion hardcore Star Wars fans out there?
Edited by alliterator on Oct 12th 2018 at 4:31:25 AM
Ace Pilot
That statement feels write and wrong at the same time.
"When I offered to make Norea my third back-up girlfriend she just glared at me and started throwing things at me.." Renee Costa
Lover of masks.
I don’t see “fans having ownership” as anything other than a stupid way to try to deflect criticism by reframing it as being inately abusive. Fans don’t have ownership over projects, but fans are the ones justifying their existence. In that case fans would be more equivalent to investors and writers to employees. If the investors get pissed off at the employees and stopped spending money, you would damn expect someone to get fired.
Edited by TheDeadMansLife on Oct 12th 2018 at 4:39:35 AM
Please.
How are we defining "fans," then? Someone who goes to see TLJ once in the theaters? Someone who comments online? Someone who watches the shows or buys the books? Who, exactly, is a fan?
Ace Pilot
If we go with a basic dictionary definition.
A person who has a strong interest in or admiration for a particular person or thing.
"When I offered to make Norea my third back-up girlfriend she just glared at me and started throwing things at me.." Renee Costa
fuckANN
Also, fans don't pay the bill. The casual viewer pays the bill. Do you really think there are over a billion hardcore Star Wars fans out there?
You really should look up the pareto principle
You're going to pay a price for every bloody thing you do and everything you don't do. You don't get to choose to not pay a price.
Ace Pilot
Do the casual fans go after the additional material because that seems more like what a major fan would be more interested in.
"When I offered to make Norea my third back-up girlfriend she just glared at me and started throwing things at me.." Renee Costa
Screaming Into The Void
"Too negative, too vulgar, and too political"?
Honestly, if the current state of politics in the States doesn't make you want to swear, you're not paying attention. Wendig's anger is completely understandable to me, and it's not even my country.
Lover of masks.
The pareto principal would back up my point, if you wanted to use it so loosely. 80% of merch sales is probably coming from those 20% fans. While it’s true that the casual viewer is mostly just in it for whaterver, a lot of that whatever is “word of mouth” which is created post viewing by new “fans” and “we should go watch this” by previous fans. For example, my family is going to watch Venom this weekend because one person in our group likes Tom Hardy. Sony embargoed reviews because they were afraid critical reception would kill it, but felt that word of mouth might carry it.
Please.
Let me put it this way:
Yes, the new Star Wars media is controversial, but it is still commercially popular as well as critically popular. And for what it's worth, Wendig was also a popular (commercially and critically) science fiction writer before he did anything Star Wars related (although I admit to not having read him as of yet).
To the extent that Wendig has attacked Star Wars fan haters, it is for racism and sexism.
While a lot of fan haters like to argue that they are wrongly tarred with the racist and sexist label, if you are arguing that the true fans triumphed over Wendig, you are telling on yourself.
My problem with fans having "ownership" over a series they're a fan of is that that mentality is usually a way to justify entitlement. The notion that they are entitled to spew vitriol and harass people if things don't go their way. Fan entitlement is a huge problem in this fandom and others, and the sense of "ownership" of works is a major part of that.
I think I need a break from this thread. The constant debates, the lack of fun, and just the general knowledge that this series I've loved since I was four and watching the OT on VHS is now a rallying cry for some of the worst people in the country is really getting to me.
Gently wrap up this world like the night sky.
When exactly has he done this?
Oh God! Natural light!