Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

Vader was an ideological enemy of all free people, so it really didn’t matter how he felt about Luke, he still was a fascist bastard. The idea that all that’s necessary is familial reconciliation is bad ideology; it prioritizes blood ties over the res publica.

Vader would have still been a brutal totalitarian if he had lived past Endor, so where’s the redemption? Even evil people have loved ones, but not every father puts the Galaxy under a madman’s boot heel.

I would only be able to accept a redemption for Kylo if his ideology changed. I frankly don’t care about his family issues or his connection to Rey. His beliefs and actions toward the whole Galaxy make him objectionable.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Oct 3rd 2018 at 12:08:36 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

Oookay. Well, I'm out.

So in a last attempt to save this thread from da lock, how much of this stuff do you think will be in the Un-Canceled TCW season?

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."

theres a good bet it might be. TCW 7 will no doubt feature a lot of unrealized ideas shelved after the buyout.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Oct 3rd 2018 at 12:41:57 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

Sounds more like you brushed off why someone might feel that way wasn't in the best interest narrativly in favor of positioning your argument as right for a reason no one argued.

Given what happens with Maul in Rebels I doubt we will see his canned Mandalore content.

Edited by VeryMelon on Oct 3rd 2018 at 12:42:10 PM

It's only 12(?) episodes though - the original plan was double that, so I wonder if they'll be able to fit all that in.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Oct 3rd 2018 at 11:41:22 AM

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."

Their order might be expanded. TCW is a really uncontroversial series and would build good fan PR, so...

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

Please reread the posts then, because that's not what happened.

You're more concerned with being right over why someone would disagree with a certain direction the franchise took to begin with. That's why arguments tends to go on forever.

Edited by VeryMelon on Oct 3rd 2018 at 12:52:02 PM

Maybe it’s best if we all just move on.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

I'm not. The post that started this all stated: "The guys a fucking maniac, no sane person would willingly try to save him after seeing him murder his own father." They were basically calling Rey insane for wanting to redeem Kylo, when the exact same thing had happened before in the OT. Feel free to criticize narrative decisions all you like, but calling Rey insane for doing the same thing Luke did was just plain weird.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 3rd 2018 at 10:02:26 AM

It be hard to top Obi-Wan & Maul's final confrontation.

Cause that shit was beautifal.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I just want to see Boba Fett kill Cad Bane.

I'd argue that, if it can be achieved, convincing someone to voluntarily abandon their evil agenda is always better than stopping their evil agenda through force.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko

Here's the thing: the arguments for why Kylo Ren should not be redeemed fall pretty flat to me because it seems pretty clear in my opinion that he won't be. Like. That's not a criticism. "The Last Jedi" fully agrees that Kylo Ren is irredeemable.

That's the whole point of trying to redeem him in the first place: to make absolutely clear that this person is beyond redemption.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Yeah, that's kind of how it always read to me.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 3rd 2018 at 2:33:45 AM

i mean, okay, but Kylo is such a loathsome prick with zero charisma that someone could simply say he’s irredeemable and i would believe them without them spending two movies demonstrating it. There were more economical ways to approach it.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

It's not really about proving it to the audience, though. It's about establishing Rey as, like the younger Luke, the kind of character who would try.

Originally Vader's redemption was a tool for Luke's plot, thats it. Only with PT do we see the other side of the story.

For Kylo however no, its got really creepy loving the rapist vibes, and it really doesn't help Rey's arc at all unless they are intending for just a Twilight vibe for the whole thing.

I get the impression that the idea that Rey is in love with him is mostly in Ren's head, as yet another deconstruction, this time of the Padme-and-Annie Starcrossed Lovers Romantic Plot Tumor. Ren thinks he's a tragic fallen hero like Vader. He's not. The movie takes pains to show he's not. And I think Rey is maybe briefly physically attracted to that chest and the brooding mystery within, but that feeling quickly turns to pity for a lost and injured child, and I don't think she's exactly nursing a broken heart when she leaves that throne room. Feeling betrayed, yes, disappointed, certainly, but more on behalf of the Resistance than for the sake of love's labour lost.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 3rd 2018 at 2:57:54 AM

Here's the thing, what makes Kylo so deserving of proving whether he's redeemable or not?

Maul didn't get it, Dooku didn't get it, Ventress didn't get it, Tarkin didn't get it, Sidious didn't get it, Savage didn't get it, the Inquisitors didn't get it, Hux prolly won't get it, Phasma prolly won't get it, etc.

Despite being just as bad as the people I've listed but also far less pitiable than several, make makes Kylo Ren deserving of showing whether he's redeemable or not?

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 3rd 2018 at 1:58:33 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Because he's Han and Leia's son, Luke's nephew and former student, and the closest thing Rey has to an equal in power. It's not really that complicated. It's not about what he deserves, it's about what the other characters want for him and for themselves.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 3rd 2018 at 4:12:00 AM

So pretty much their all biased.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Why would they want redemption for him when he already turned it down twice when he had the opportunity to do so.

The first time he had the chance he killed his father and the second time he pretty much tried to recruit Rey.

"When I offered to make Norea my third back-up girlfriend she just glared at me and started throwing things at me.." Renee Costa