Better Call Saul

I love those Shoot the Shaggy Dog works.

Walt's ambition and selfishness ruined his family. The moment he told Gretchen to eff off when she offered him cash stood out for me. This was a story about a guy who actively refused someone's pity/generosity.

BCS was a harder sell for me because I wasn't fond of Saul Goodman's character or think much of Bob Odenkirk. Being a prequel, too. I'm not engaged with legal dramas either.

That turned around by the end of Season 1 once Saul got his "no turning back/Damn, It Feels Good to Be a Gangster!" moment.

Despite knowing where Saul ends up it was interesting seeing more of Fring, seeing all the work that Walt inevitably destroys, getting to see more of Mike, and figuring out what became of BCS's cast.

I feel like Breaking Bad will always be the standout, but Better Call Saul easily stands out on its own.

Edited by FOFD on Jul 26th 2023 at 3:17:03 PM

The ironic thing is at the end of it all, in dark way, that's basically where he ended up anyway; Its his money, but now Skylar and Flynn will just think its coming from Gretchen and Elliot. Walt was able to bury his pride just a teeny tiny bit right at the end, enough to let his family think the money is coming from two people Walt truly loathes.

Edited by diddyknux on Jul 26th 2023 at 12:00:16 PM

Flynn, Saul, and Mike were pretty much the characters that got me through Breaking Bad the most in terms of helping me keep my sanity and tolerance through all the awful acts that were going on. I suppose it can be rather hard seeing what's essentially a villain be the protagonist at times and they helped get me through it, so it was nice to see Saul and Mike again in that respect.

I hated the overly moralizing ending of BCS.

How so?

Do you mean that Saul is the one character who finally owns up to their past and everything they've helped ruin? I personally like that ending and think both series together do a good job of building up to that ending for him.

I thought it was a nice parallel with Breaking Bad; Saul's humanity claws its way to the surface and he does his best to atone for his legacy (and things are left somewhat open-ended for where he might end up), whereas Walter dies surrounded by his, not long after having admitted point-blank there was no lofty ideal behind all he'd done: "I did it for me".

Edited by Chortleous on Jul 26th 2023 at 4:29:00 AM

I mean, Saul goes to prison for the rest of his life for money laundering. Also in a Maximum Security prison (which it isn't by the look, as it has gen pop). It's a disgusting endorsement of the prison system and the belief it has any sort of justice for the crimes Saul did do. Jessie gets away with his crimes, Walt gets to go out on his own terms, and Saul gets a horrific punishment they try and pass off as anything other than horrific. Oddly, the six years he negotiated down seemed pretty fair for a guy who never killed anyone. He didn't kill Howard, Howard was murdered by someone who wanted to murder him.

TLDR, I find it very skeevy to endorse the idea of "Prison as Redemption."

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 26th 2023 at 2:45:57 AM

Definitely liking how I'm getting to know the Breaking Bad universe beyond Walt's point of view. "Five-O" in particular gave great insight on Mike, whom I always found interesting for his level-headed, firm, and tough attitude.

Yeah, I agree. That 86 year sentence feels more like the sentence that Walt, the Neo-Nazis, or even Gus would be getting had any of them lived to be indicted and stand trial. I actually have read a fix-it fic that pointed that out: "Parts of this thing are held together with duct tape [...] They’ve put almost every charge they wanted to pin on a dead Heisenberg in here."

Edited by dmcreif on Jul 26th 2023 at 6:11:04 AM

By the way, how often does Jimmy face off someone in court anyway? I know this isn't Perry Mason, but I was curious.

Very rarely, but part of that is actually realism. Like most lawyer, Jimmy wants a plea or a settlement if he can get it.

Pretty much my thoughts. Thanks for the fic recommendation. I like it.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 26th 2023 at 3:24:43 AM

I feel like Jimmy only has two big courtroom confrontations in the series.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Jul 26th 2023 at 6:54:08 AM

Just watched Gloves Off. The best episodes so far are def the ones with Mike in a prominent role.

Is that the Mike-centric one about his son who got murked? Twas one of those episodes alright. Like the Jesse episode with the kid.

That was Five-O. Gloves Off is the one where Mike convinces Nacho to lure Tuco into a mess of legal trouble by egging on his anger with a bumped car and the feeling of being cheated.

I can go on about how the Mike and Gus stuff is great, but as for the stuff with Jimmy, my favorite part so far is prob the one where Jimmy's "confession" is played in front of Kim, with him saying how he went that far for her. In some strange way, it's almost as if that's some glorified love letter to her.

Regarding Jesse: To say he "got away with his crimes" is true legally but that's about it. He was imprisoned, enslaved and tortured for weeks or months, his loved ones murdered or were forced away from him (El Camino indicates that one of his best friends is probably going to prison for helping him escape)...dude was a physical and mental trainwreck by the end. He was a criminal, a killer of course, but anything the law could do to him would feel kinda perfunctory. He's also still got to live with knowing about what he did, and he's cut off from everyone he ever knew or loved, forever.

Regarding Saul: Any modern western legal system does not look kindly on accessorising and facilitating crime, and Saul enabled drug dealers and murderers for years. His actions contributed to the deaths of innocents like Howard, and countless others through his actions. He didn't pull any triggers but he knowingly put himself in situations which would cause problems for others, and a lot of that was because of selfishness and greed,

I think in both cases you have a situation where the law and its justice, and societal morals and what counts as justice are by no means the same thing. In a strict legal sense, in terms of culpability, the punishments would probably have been more fitting almost reversed, but given what the characters actually went through - and still will in the future - I think it works out pretty fairly.

Then you have someone like Walt, who basically gets away with everything. The law doesn't touch him, his family hate him but he's achieved his goal for them, and dies happily of something that was going to get him regardless, unless he'd actually swallowed his pride and taken the expensive treatments paid for by Gretchen and Elliot - which he's incapable of doing.

To me, the last character is a Karma Houdini, the others get pretty fair rewards/punishments all in all.

Nitpick about Walt: he dies of an accidentally self-inflicted gunshot wound not of 'something that was going to get him regardless'.

At least Jesse and Saul didn’t intentionally try to hurt people like how Walt did, as low of a bar as that is. You can go “this crime” or “that crime” all you want, but speaking as a casual civilian, it wouldn’t really worry me if Jesse and Saul were loose out there, whereas Walt would worry me, if that makes any sense.

Edited by SoaringStarman on Jul 29th 2023 at 1:57:32 PM

Fair point. He was going to die of the cancer very soon but that wasn't what got him.

Agreed.

I think it's probably worth noting that bleeding to death in a meth lab, hated by everyone you ever knew including your own family and doomed to be remembered by the the public solely as one of the most infamous criminals in American history is not actually a good way to go. His legacy is mountains of corpses and destroyed lives. Only in the twisted mind of a guy like Walter White could that be considered a happy ending.

Edited by Millardkillmoore on Jul 30th 2023 at 8:19:57 AM

Oh, so Hector's state in his last years wasn't a result of a naturally deteriorating body with a deteriorating mind. His body was basically forced to deteriorate quickly, leaving his pretty stable mind in it.

I kind of wish Walt would survive his injuries so he's forced to deal with the consequences.

I recall there was this idea to have Walt go on trial or in jail, but honestly, he'd prob cause too many headaches for those over him, knowing how big his ego could get for "deserved contributions."