Supergirl TV Series

We've already agreed that the reason Thawne got away with as much as he did is because the speed force hates Barry.

I know, it just goes to my point. We wouldn't even know about speedsters damaging the timeline if Jay hadn't told us and even then it doesn't completely gel with the time with Pied Piper or Snart where as far as we're shown nothing bad happened.

Edited by Cross on Jun 29th 2018 at 6:51:10 AM

See, I don't think it's that speedster time travel is inherently more disruptive. It's that Barry's more of a goody-goody, and is going to tie himself up in knots if any changes he makes to the past negatively affect someone's life. The Legends, meanwhile, barrel ahead without much concern for how they might screw things up, and only try to pick up the pieces after the fact.

Flashpoint didn't happen because Barry felt bad about how his decisions affected others. It happened because Barry changed the past.

Team Chainsaw lives up its nickname once an episode, but in spite of it they've managed to keep the universe in proper working order.

Gideon knows more about time travel than Barry and so the Legends actions have a comparatively minor effect more often than not.

Thing is, Flashpoint wasn't really that bad. Barry's life, and the lives of everyone he knew, they were all different, but in the big picture, there was still a Flash going around doing typical Flash stuff. Barry tried to change everything back, not because it was a horrible reality, but because it simply wasn't home.

And when his attempt to put things right resulted in a reality where Cisco's brother is dead and Joe and Iris aren't speaking to each other, that's what led him to swear off trying to change the past. Again, not because the fabric of reality was at stake or anything, but because he just doesn't want to be responsible for messing up anyone's lives.

The only major disaster caused by Flashpoint was the creation of Savitar, and that was less about Flashpoint itself and more about how, once he got a taste of playing God with time and reality, the potential existed for Barry to become Savitar.

At the end Season 2 they wrecked time in a way Barry never did and topped themselves in Season 3.

Gideon knowing more about time travel doesn't stop them from being Team Chainsaw, it let's them know they screwed up and have to clean up after themselves which they do to varying levels of effectiveness. A lot of the time they get by with "Close Enough" or a few cases of major changes that, despite logic, are depicted with minor consequences.

Since the first season (where they deliberately set out to change history) each season of Legends of Tomorrow has been about them fixing the mess they made the previous season.

Blew up the Time Masters in Season 1 - Have to take over as time police in Season 2

Broke time defeating the Legion in Season 2 - Have to clean up anachronisms in Season 3

Broke time even further to set Mallus loose in Season 3 - Have to round up a bunch of other monsters that set loose in Season 4

And yet they keep making changes to the timeline whenever it fits them, like with Stein's daughter or the fate of Amaya's village

They are the posterchild of Protagonist-Centered Morality.

And yet, they tore into Barry over his own messing with the timeline.

It does come off as rather hypocritical, though at that point, they weren't buggering the timeline as much as they would eventually come to.

To be fair, IIRC the only Legends to really call him on it were Sara and Ray. I don't think Stein, Jax, or Mick had the same reaction. Sara comes off as worst due to her assassination attempts on Darhk, but Ray gets a bit of slack because while he messes up repeatedly I don't think he ever changed history for personal reasons.

Lily gets a pass since that was unintentional.

Edited by Cross on Jun 30th 2018 at 1:09:15 PM

I think Amaya's village worked because they were debating saving it on and off for two seasons, and even when they did finally save it it was acknowledged to be hypocritical. "Yeah we probably shouldn't be doing this but we can't just abandon our teammate."

But anyway, when I was talking about the effects of time travel, I meant more the exact mechanics of it. Waverider-style time travel doesn't have any unintended side effects unless you do something really stupid like intentionally make large changes or meet your past self. Speedster time travel always has unintended side effects (though those side effects aren't always that bad), and getting things back to exactly the way they were is impossible. And this even though speedsters often just jump around by a few days instead of by centuries. Not to mention time wraiths pop up unless you're "being careful" (though we don't know exactly what that means). The only advantage speedster time travel has is that you can create as many time remnants as you want without trouble.

Or the Legends just don't notice those little changes, since they rarely interact with their own past.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Legends are constantly generating their own Flashpoints after every other adventure, but just don't notice because they don't check the futures of the non famous people the interact with.

Sam Witwer, best knows as Starkiller from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed and Doomsday from Smallville will be in season 4

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/dc/supergirl/smallvilles-doomsday-sam-witwer-joins-the-cast-of-supergirl-season-4-as-agent-liberty-a162199

Appropriate for a guy who played a Sith Lord (sort of)

Edited by windleopard on Jul 18th 2018 at 2:51:33 AM

I like The Force Unleashed, but I don't think Smallville Doomsday is a good thing to have on your resume. To be fair that was less him and more Smallville's absurd variations on Superman villains. Really, Doomsday shouldn't even be in Smallville but they made him the villain of Season 7 or 8 anyway.

From Wikipedia:

Which I suppose can be reinterpreted as:

I guess they needed both a social issue to theme this season's villain around and someone for James to punch. Because I can't see Agent Liberty being a threat to Kara, and with Winn in the future I can't see Liberty going after him.

I don't suppose Red Son Supergirl is a coincidence either.

Edited by Soble on Jul 18th 2018 at 4:19:08 AM

Witwer's been in other stuff, some good and some bad. He's a good talent either way, so I'm interested in seeing him here.

He also voiced Sidious and Darth Maul on other occasions, so not just 1 Sith Lord^^

Excited for him.

I wonder if Eliza Danvers could reprise her Supergirl role.

Sam Witwer is an awesome voice actor, but his live action career has been more hit or miss. I think it's telling that (Star Wars spoilers) he voices Maul in Solo, but someone else is playing the character.

Did they get back Ray Park for Maul's physical body? It'd only be fair that if Witwer is the voice, Maul is the dude doing all the moves, since he's the original Maul and all.

Our page says it was Ray Park, yes.

Witwer, as Maul, can totally give a legit amazing and at times terrifying performance, so I'm down.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 18th 2018 at 10:37:06 AM

• It seems like this and Legends are both re-using a lot of old footage...
  • Seems like Supergirl got the short stick of the trailers this time around.
• I'm here for Evil Supergirl then I'm out.

Edited by Soble on Jul 21st 2018 at 7:32:41 AM

They've already done Evil Supergirl twice now. Barry got three Evil Flashes, so they get one more. Then I call shenanigans.

Three times if you count Red Kryptonite. In which case, shenanigans! Shenanigans!

Edited by Eagal on Jul 21st 2018 at 7:19:25 AM

Oliver's had like... four evil Arrows, six if you count Tommy-Prometheus and Nazi Oliver.

Three Evil Flashes.

Three evil Supergirl's now.