Gargantia: propaganda

Am I the only person who thinks Suisei no Gargantia is conservative propaganda?

Probably. How so?

...Yeah? Why would you think it? The Galactic Alliance are portrayed as Xenophobic Fascists.

Are you saying that because it idealizes the relatively quaint life of Gargantia? I don't think that makes them 'conservative', definitely not propaganda.

edited 17th Mar '14 4:15:19 PM by Scherzo09

You're going to need to explain your reasoning

I am very sure we have a Gargantia thread somewhere. Do bump that instead of making a new topic like this next time you have a question.

Upon about two minutes consideration if I was forced to hazard a guess it would be the implied condemnation of the group who split off from Gargantia.

However that overlooks the strong sense of communal action and responsibility that is prevalent in Japanese culture, crossing political boundaries. If one wanted to view it politically, the negative impacts of authoritarian social structures and the empahsis on peaceful understanding and co-existence when contrasted with the xenophobic militarism of the Galactic Alliance is that it comes down on the other side of the political spectrum.

I think the condemnation of the separatists is pretty apolitical.

Little things like the individual ships that make up Gargantia are all owned by individual owners, everything on Gargantia is run like a business, Ledo goes looking for a job even though he makes more than enough money renting out his robot and the Galactic Alliance is portrayed as ‘evil’ communists. And then there is episode 9, which is basically anti-science propaganda in itself. The Evolvers are portrayed as villains for practicing trans-humanism.

???? Most ideologies I'm familiar with that are okay with gaining wealth through no effort of your own are ones that'd typically be described as conservative

The Evolvers weren't portrayed as villains. Both sides were wrong

I uh don't think any Conservatives would say that is an ideology they espouse. Conservativism is about self-sufficiency.

Anyways that misses the point that the Galactic Alliance are the ones who're portrayed as more villainous.

No conservative would ever flaunt those swimsuits and belly dancing costumes seen in Gargantia!

(Rimshot).

Aliance itself wasn't portraited as particulary evil either, under circumistances their society was in, it was best options. Noone else would be able survive.

edited 18th Mar '14 11:20:12 AM by Tenzen12

I think they were going for one of those Forever War things. Both sides had been fighting for so long they actually forgot why.

Yep, also whole that "propaganda" Idea is stupid in conterporary anime. Every work somehow mirror its creator beliefs, but only few people has actualy guts (means brain tumor) claim that Myazaki writes eco-propaganda or badmouth C.S.Lewis for using christian motives.

Also anime in general use few stock aesops over and over like: war is bad, friendship prevails and incest is ok. Gargantia is no different than for example gundams in that metter.

edited 18th Mar '14 12:27:10 PM by Tenzen12

Eh there are some where its apropos. Valvrave The Liberator is total Japanese Nationalist propaganda.

Valvrave can't be propaganda because that is supposed be taken seriously. NOONE take valvrave and it's content seriously, ever.

Just because it's schlocky doesn't mean it's not propaganda. The episodes I saw had a very blatant Japanese remilitarization bent.

edited 18th Mar '14 3:08:59 PM by Scherzo09

Would you accuse Girls und Panzer or Arpeggio of Blue Steel of being propaganda too, then?

Propaganda is program aimed on manipulating of human thinking and changing their attitude. So it has to be taken seriously into certain degree. You can't accept way of thinking without taking it seriously first, so yes just having shlocky writing disqualify it as propaganda.

As I said any story can have some appeal and there is nothing wrong with that. Presenting belive or aesop itself doesn't qualify as propaganda.

edited 18th Mar '14 3:36:39 PM by Tenzen12

'Strong Japanese nationalist bent' is a polite way of saying it was a metaphor for the rise of anime Nazi Germany. I'm only half-joking.

And Tenzen, have you seen much propaganda? It's crude and schlocky as fuck. To Godwin again, check out the Nazis' stuff, or American patriot fiction.

edited 18th Mar '14 3:36:03 PM by Iaculus

Not realy, propaganda you speak about was multi layered and enforced by "respectable," medias. You don't need sophisticated methods if it is literaly EVERYWHERE (not mentioned there was also plenty of smart tricks mixed in). But if you don't have quantity you have to rise quality. Single scrappy work doesn't change ones thinking.

Also you are missing a bit point here. Propaganda WANT and NEED to be taken seriously to be effective, so regardless how scrappy it is, it takes itself seriously. Be able Hide propaganda in sef-awere show would require definitely top-knotch writing.

edited 18th Mar '14 4:04:37 PM by Tenzen12

@Greenmantle: it's that the geopolitical setup is a thinly veiled allegory to Japan's current geopolitical situation; an economically powerful but pacifist nation trapped between an aggressive Totalitarian dictatorship and an unscrupulous, abusive 'democratic' benefactor. The only attempt at 'subtlety' is having the Totalitarian regime have Crypto-Germanic overtones, but China and Japan label each other as Nazis so often that the allusion is still pretty obvious.

Hey can we have a topic name change? Let's make this a discussion about potential propaganda in Anime/Manga.

edited 18th Mar '14 5:18:21 PM by Scherzo09

I second to this.

That happens so often in all types of fiction it's hard to call it propaganda. Also, it doesn't really advocate anything. I just see it as creating a situation the intended audience can sorta relate to.

If it starts beating you over head with it and advocates a course of action that that makes sense in the current situation, then you can call it propaganda.

Well it's not like I won't turn the spotlight on American works either. Zero Dark Thirty is blatant GWOT propaganda, for example. And Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy certainly does have fascistic overtones as well.