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Zennistrad from The Multiverse Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#188226: Sep 9th 2018 at 8:27:28 AM

Fun but useless fact: in Japanese, the word for "dust", ("hokori") is pronounced exactly the same way as the word for "pride."

UdtheImp from Stamford, CT (Series 2) Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#188227: Sep 9th 2018 at 8:42:50 AM

[up]Definitely explains things about Japanese culture in general, especially when taking in account the society being sticklers for cleanliness overall.....

DAMMIT MARK, STOP HOTTING HELPY!!
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#188229: Sep 9th 2018 at 9:11:10 AM

08x20 - The Washouts

"I hereby call to order this meeting of the Rainbow Dash Fan Club!" I am highly entertained by the rainbow wigs. Also, this club sure has grown. Is that Bon Bon I see? You are a secret ag—

Oh.

Hey. Hey, guys. We have a spy in our midst. <.< She must not learn the secret to Scootaloo's fan enthusiasm.

The secret is that Rainbow Dash is really cool.

Right after I typed that, Rainbow Dash popped up in the window to bask in her popularity. Like a dork.

"The Washouts Fan Club!" Uh. Thank you for expositing all of that to an empty room so that Rainbow Dash could overhear it, Scootaloo. This wasn't a super-awkward introduction to the episode's conflict AT ALL.

Also, I know someone mentioned that this was going to be the premise but I totally spaced on that and thought the titular Washouts were going to be ponies who failed out of the School of Friendship. Like, a bunch of ponies and/or creatures who suck at friendship and eventually had to be either removed or left on their own accord, forming their own group out of spite to be BETTER than something silly and ridiculous like friendship. And then at the end, they realize that they've all become friends during their mutual effort to spite Twilight's school.

I don't know. I thought a lot about this! [lol]

"Oh, what's this? Did I interrupt your fan club meeting?" Wow. Rainbow Dash is just going to full-on jealous spite mode right from the start. She's really invested in Scootaloo's hero worship.

"You eavesdrop on every meeting? That's weird." It's super-weird. The kind of weird that makes a pony go from super-awesome to uncool creep. Especially since, being the subject of the meetings, Rainbow Dash could just attend them if she craves the ego boost so badly. Plus, it's totally infringing on another pony's turf; creepy stalking is Twilight's gig.

And it really hurts her image as the Cool Pony. Because constantly needing to be reminded that you're cool? Way uncool. You know, the fact that she so desperately needs these regular ego-shots that she is now throwing a temper tantrum over getting shorted really supports my theory that she is to some extent introverted or, at least, has social anxiety.

She acts loud and bombastic because she lacks self-confidence. She tries too hard to convince everyone else of how cool she is, because she is utterly dependent on the opinions of others to define her own self-worth. She has difficulty empathizing with others because she's so busy fretting over how they see her to spare a moment for their actual feelings. She's a social Try-Hard, meeting every social interaction as a chance to persuade people that she's worth liking rather than just engaging them as a pony.

She's a show-off not because she thinks she's really cool, but because she desperately needs you to think that so that you can validate her self-worth for her.

It's very interesting to me that she chooses to sit outside the cabin rather than enter it during the fan club meeting. An extrovert would stroll right in and seize the spotlight, but Rainbow Dash stays at the window. These ponies already thinks he's cool, so she keeps a safe distance where she can't possibly prove them wrong and passively soaks in their approval. She's not looking for attention, she just wants the affirmation that ponies like her.

"Boring old flight and formation junk?!" To be fair, the Wonderbolts were supposed to be Equestria's Air Force equivalent when they were introduced. They do shows, but in the same sense that the Air Force does flyover shows at big events. In fact, the Wonderbolts' smoke trails are pretty clearly inspired by the USAF Thunderbirds. They do perform, but they're military performers. Equestria's never had a civilian equivalent to the Wonderbolts' shows before to our knowledge.

The funny thing about this premise is that I actually wanted Rainbow Dash to lead something like the Washouts in the middle seasons. After it became apparent that the Wonderbolts are a giant bag of dicks, I thought it'd be cool for her to gradually lose interest and build her own awesome flying league to compete with them. But the decision was made to just fold her into the Wonderbolts and declare Mission Accomplished on her life goals so whatevs.

"Can you believe she actually said that?!" And then Rainbow Dash ran crying to her friends because, having taken this hit to her incredibly fragile ego, she now wants them to give her a pat on the back and go, "It's okay. We still think you're cool. Scootaloo's just a mean old meanie-face. The rest of us adore you and think you're amazing."

"And it kinda sounded like she didn't think I was cool either. But paugh, we all know that's crazy. I mean. I'm definitely not worried about her looking up to somepony else! Nope. NOT. AT. ALL." And now she's panic-spiraling. This is an extended cry for help while trying not to look like she's crying out for help. She's begging her friends to jump in and reassure her while also trying to look like somepony who doesn't need reassurance. I love how they all share glances like they know exactly what she's doing, but they all just stay quiet and let her do this. Oh, Rainbow Dash is sinking into a terrified quagmire of anxiety? It must be Tuesday.

"Wow, they do look pretty amazing…ly unamazing! Trying so hard to look amazing is what I mean!" They actually do look pretty cool in that poster.

"The Wonderbolts have bleachers too!" Man, she is just going full-jealousy over this. It's great.

"This is THE WASHOUTS!!!" So we're all expecting these ponies to be literal washouts from the Wonderbolts, right? I'm not the only one?

Ooh, I wonder if Lightning Dust is here.

"Say it with me now, the Washouts official motto: LEAP BEFORE YOU LOOK!!!" I don't think that's Iron Will, but I'd be so happy if that was Iron Will.

"Do NOT try this at home!" One member of the trio has a yellow and orange tail. That pony has to be Lightning Dust, I'm sure of it.

"I can't just go up and talk to them." I like how they unmasked the purple member. Lulling us into a false sense of security that these are just some new character so we won't see Lightning Dust coming, I'm sure.

"One of the reasons there's a Rainbow Dash fan-club is because I'm fearless!" Because fearless go into panic attacks at the slightest hint of mediocrity.

"We're called the Washouts because we all used to be Wonderbolts just like you." Lightning Dust in 5…4…3….

"Lightning Dust." CALLED IT. Also, welcome back to the show, Lightning Dust. You were the antagonist for what is still the best Rainbow Dash episode ever made, so let's see if this episode can follow up on that.

I'm guessing, since she's making a return appearance, that she's here to be redeemed? Which is a bit of a bait and switch from Rainbow Dash's jealousy plot if so, unless Rainbow Dash also needs to learn a valuable lesson while we're at it?

"Was it wrong of me to endanger the lives of your friends? Yeah. But hey, now I only endanger these knuckleheads!" …or maybe Lightning Dust has moved on with her life and there's nothing to really redeem anymore. Which would be pretty neat and I would be entirely onboard with that. Keeps the narrative focus on Rainbow Dash being a jealous asshole rather than switching it to Lightning Dust being a villain.

The Washouts seem to get on pretty well with one another from what we see here so. Like. That's fine. Rainbow Dash doesn't need to like Lightning Dust. None of the Manes need to like Lightning Dust. She has her friends, they have theirs. If she's not hurting anypony, then there's no reason not to let bygones be bygones at this point. Apart from Rainbow Dash's blind jealousy, of course, and if we're sticking with that as the crux of the conflict, all the better.

"Your show was pretty dynamite." "Want to know the secret? We basically ignore everything the Wonderbolts ever taught us about safety." Nope, never mind. Returning antagonist is here to be the villain.

"You know what happens when something goes wrong with the Crushinator Jaws of Smashalot?" "Patent Pending?" Yes, actually. Lightning Dust just explained that Rolling Thunder's hind leg was caught in the jaws. That's why it's in a cast and there's a temporary opening in the Washouts. She has seen for herself what happens when something goes wrong and it has done nothing to mitigate her enthusiasm for the Washouts.

"Full-body wing and hoof cast, drinking through a straw!" You know, the "Scared Straight" shtick works better when you actually show the kid examples rather than just saying they exist. Also, it's a little awkward that we're trying to threaten a disabled child with the risk of physical harm - harm which, as noted, she's already seen first-hand and knows about.

Don't get me wrong. Scootaloo's young and stupid. She doesn't understand the risks because she's a kid, and kids often think of themselves as invulnerable without meaning to. "It can't happen to me."

But at the same time, Lightning Dust said that the Washouts take any pony. Scootaloo will never be a Wonderbolt. Never. She can't fly. She does not have the physical ability to be the best flier in Equestria. It can't happen. But if they're willing to make tricks around her scooter, then she can be a Washout. In a sense, she always has been. She's not a flier, she's a stunt skater who uses her deformed wings for propulsion, and that perfectly fits in with the Washouts' M.O.

I think I'm on Lightning Dust's side here. Let Scootaloo join. For her particular situation, it's basically the Wonderbolts' equivalent of the Special Olympics.

"That way you can follow in my hoofsteps." You're not the mom of her.

In seriousness, though. It is entirely in-character for Rainbow Dash to not understand that Scootaloo's wings probably aren't actually going to grow in, and also kind of heartbreaking.

"They were doing an autograph session before practice." "SERIOUSLY?!" Seriously. Twilight's from Canterlot. She grew up in the Royal Palace. Her brother was the Captain of the Guard before he married into Alicorn Royalty.

Twilight grew up around military shit. She stayed in Ponyville to discover friendship and gain new life experiences outside the castle. It makes perfect sense that she'd be so enthusiastic about civilian stunt fliers. Not only are they a brand new thing and she's all about new things, but they aren't a military regiment the likes of which she's seen countless times over the course of her life.

"That's kind of the whole draw. It's exciting." "But it's like, the harder I try to convince Scootaloo they're dangerous, the more she likes them!" That's kind of the whole draw. It's exciting.

"But what if she chooses them over me?! She's gonna get hurt!" Is she going to get hurt any less by spending her whole life watching the Wonderbolts from the sidelines and hating her wings for never allowing her to join in? Rainbow Dash isn't wrong about the Washouts needing safety rules, but they're still perfect for Scoots.

"Maybe you're right, but this isn't about me." You're right. It's not, despite your repeated efforts to make it about you. Like ripping up the Washouts' stuff and throwing it off a cliff, and then debating the best way to sell Rainbow Dash merch. You had a chance to acknowledge it wasn't about you then and you made it pretty clear that your primary concern is keeping the flow of ego boosts coming. "I'm just worried about Scoot" is an excuse. You're worried about Rainbow Dash.

"Wow, you're really working hard on this new stunt." That is clearly a scooter ramp on the drawing board. Lightning Dust is already accounting for Scootaloo's disability while still devising a cool performance for her. I love these guys.

"Oh, I'm pretty sure she still likes us." Can we just roll credits right after she comes out in a Washout suit looking badass? I am seriously 100% onboard with this.

"I'll never be the best of the best or a Wonderbolt because I. CAN'T. FLY." Throwing down the gauntlet.

"But not being able to fly doesn't mean I can't do something awesome! Like stapping my scooter to a multi-stage liquid-fuel rocket and jumping 22 wagons lined up in front of a roaring crowd!" Again: totally on her side in this. Hey, remember that time when she slingshotted herself to Cloudsdale? Scootaloo was born for stunts.

Also, in case anyone's wondering, no. I am not at all bothered by the fact that she's too young to be doing this without a permission slip because we all know that either Scootaloo's an orphan or her parents just don't give two shits about her at this point. Rainbow Dash is the only authority figure she's ever had in her life.

I mean, I know the expanded materials gave her a pair of aunts or something, but that just passes the buck from shitty uncaring parents to shitty uncaring aunts. Either way, there's never been a responsible adult to intervene in her life choices before, so why start having one now?

Also, I am deathly afraid that this episode is going to end on the show turning out to be super-dangerous but Scootaloo's life is saved by finally being able to fly. That would be such a cop-out resolution. It kinda goes back to what I've said before about Rainbow Dash actually joining the Wonderbolts being an undermining conclusion to her story. Sometimes a character moving on with their life and letting go of an unfulfilled dream makes for a stronger and more interesting resolution than just getting whatever it is that they wanted.

Scootaloo making peace with the fact that she's never going to fly and leading a fulfilling life despite the disability is a much more satisfying conclusion to her story than "And then suddenly she could fly!" could ever be.

But the way this is set up, we're meant to be on Rainbow Dash's side and think the Washouts are just a bunch of bad ponies who are bad for Scootaloo. This is a problem, because she is absolutely right that the inability to fly means the Wonderbolts, Rainbow Dash's preferred course for her, isn't even possible. The only way I see them resolving this is by having the Washouts prove their recklessness to Scootaloo at the same time that the Wonderbolts path opens back up to her via gaining the ability to fly.

But that's a terrible ending.

"You wouldn't want to get impeached for dishonoring my wishes, would you?" [lol] Nice social pressure. Anyways, Lightning Dust is still clearly a villain. Like, as much as I've been defending the Washouts as a course for Scootaloo, actual safety measures would be a good thing to have. That's what makes this conflict so awkward, because Lightning Dust is totally in the right for offering this path to Scootaloo, yet also in the wrong for her reckless disregard for safety measures.

Lightning Dust feels like she should be the one learning a valuable lesson in this episode. If she could just understand the importance of safety, there would be nothing wrong with the Washouts. But she's just here to be a bad guy and facilitate Scootaloo and Rainbow Dash's conflict. She's a Strawman with a Point rather than an active participate in the episode's moral agenda.

"I think we should cancel the Washouts Fan Club because I know a Fan Club that could use some new members." So we're just not going to talk at all about the fact that Scootaloo can't join the Wonderbolts? The point was raised, but is now being ignored for the sake of Lightning Dust blasting off again.

This episode raises some interesting questions and points about Scootaloo's future and then proceeds to ignore them for the sake of teaching Rainbow Dash how to parent. I was worried at first that too much emphasis on Scootaloo would detract from the plot and I was wrong. It was, in fact, too much emphasis on Rainbow Dash that detracted from it. The elephant in the room, the fact that Scootaloo will never be able to follow in Rainbow Dash's hoofsteps is finally brought up and then completely ignored for the sake of resolution. Meanwhile, any opportunity for growth or development from Lightning Dust is shoved aside so that she can just be a cackling villain who causes problems.

So few f*cks does this episode give about Lightning Dust that it even ends on a violent resolution, having her jerked offscreen by a rocket in comedic fashion so the audience can go, "LOL, that one-dimensional asshole with zero personal merits who gave Scootaloo the first chance she's ever had to actually live her dream SURE DID GET HERS!"

Lightning Dust "got hers" at the end of "Wonderbolts Academy" too, but that was a deliberate punishment for her misbehavior. Her characterization and the effect she had on Rainbow Dash was the crux of the episode's plot. Here, she's a plot device, existing to facilitate Rainbow Dash and Scootaloo's conflict, and her retribution is a wacky bit of Hoist by His Own Petard slapstick in which she's dragged off by the big trick she set Scootaloo on.

And the weird thing is, we don't even know if the trick would have worked. The rocket doesn't crash in a fiery ball of death or explore in midair or anything. It's still sailing when the episode ends. They don’t even provide a definitive condemnation of Lightning Dust by having the trick fail. There's no Show to go with the episode's Tell that the trick was dangerous and Lightning Dust is a bad person for putting Scootaloo on it.

This is an episode that had a lot of great potential go entirely to waste. Lightning Dust needed more screentime and some actual participation in the episode's moral. Meanwhile, the way Scootaloo's disability was brought up and then never addressed completely undermines the lesson that the show is going for. We needed a completely different resolution than this. I know they didn't mean to say, "F*CK YOU, kid in a wheelchair. You either learn to DUNK or you DON'T PLAY BASKETBALL." But that is absolutely what they wound up saying and that's terrible.

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GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#188230: Sep 9th 2018 at 9:34:07 AM

[up]I thought the lesson was that you should let people try things and make mistakes while also being there to help them if they need it. And that Dash shouldn't be so overly jealous and posessive of scoots.

Scoots didn't fail the stunt because she couldn't fly. She tried to stand down of her own accord but LD thought she could do it and forced her despite her wishes.

Edited by GNinja on Sep 9th 2018 at 4:36:26 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#188231: Sep 9th 2018 at 9:51:33 AM

Like, the problem wasn't that Scootaloo wanted to do stunts. We've seen her do stunts very well. It's the fact that these specific people she's chosen to get involved with are a bunch of crazy people, and the whole venture exists only to validate Lightning's complete inability to comprehend danger and consequences to herself. Dash was treated as wrong to try and force Scoots to do anything. She even admitted to Lightning Dust that she was going to tell Scoots it's ok for her to like LD. The problem with the washouts was something for Scoots to learn by herself, because it's her life, and then RD could step in if she was needed.

Edited by GNinja on Sep 9th 2018 at 4:51:31 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#188232: Sep 9th 2018 at 10:24:06 AM

She IS doing the stunt, though, right up until Dash swoops in. And Tobias is right, there is no indication that the stunt would have failed.

I also agree that Lightning realizing the importance of safety (and consent!) in the end, and Scootaloo actually joining them, would have been a great ending. This is EXACTLY the right sort of group for Scoots. The Washouts basically being Team Rocket, only there to provide the conflict and then f*ck off when they are no longer needed, detracted from what they could have done here.

Optimism is a duty.
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#188233: Sep 9th 2018 at 10:35:54 AM

[up] Exactly.

The moral to the episode is basically that Scootaloo's growing up and needs to be allowed to make her own choices. Rainbow Dash has to accept that sometimes she needs to step aside and let Scoots make her own mistakes.

The great swaths of screentime spent on "Also Rainbow Dash is SUPER-JEALOUS" ultimately contributes nothing to the episode's message and just pulls screentime away from actually developing the Washouts and Scootaloo. The episode is so busy trying to have Rainbow Dash learn that not everything has to be about her that it's unwilling to actually let the story be about anything but her.

By making Rainbow Dash the main character and devoting the whole episode to how she feels about all of this, the episode undermines its own point.

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GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#188234: Sep 9th 2018 at 11:04:29 AM

[up] But I liked the nuance of "Just because you get to make your own choices doesn't mean that your friends can't still be there for you if you mess up." Like, Scoots got to make her own choice, even though this specific choice was a bad one. That doesn't change the fact that it was still her choice to make. IT's part of growing up.

Through this experience Dash learned things and I guess that's the difference here. I watched and enjoyed this as an RD episode, while it seems you and Red thought it would be better served as a Scoot episode or more of an even split. Basically I liked kinda everything they did with RD here, and Scoot got to shine in the key scenes she had which I found the most important.

Kaze ni Nare!
God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#188235: Sep 9th 2018 at 12:16:20 PM

Oh, and some people are really mad that Lightning Dust wasn't redeemed.

There are, apparently, some ardent Dust fans out there.

TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#188236: Sep 9th 2018 at 12:28:29 PM

[up][up] Sure. And, in a vacuum, that message is useful. But the problem is that the way they chose to tell it brings up much more pertinent questions. We've already had episodes about "Rainbow Dash has to learn that the universe doesn't revolve around her." It's not exactly innovative new ground.

But in the course of getting to that lesson, they bring up something that's been a sticking point for Scootaloo and Rainbow Dash's relationship for a long time now: Scootaloo can't fly. She can't. She will never be a Wonderbolt. She can't follow in Rainbow Dash's hoofsteps. It isn't a thing. It will never happen.

Most episodes just kind of tiptoe around that issue, but this episode makes a plot point out of it: that Rainbow Dash wants Scootaloo to follow her path, to grow up to be just like her, to join the Wonderbolts. They give Scootaloo a dramatic outburst where she calls Rainbow Dash on exactly what kind of bullshit this is. The point is very firmly made that Scootaloo can never be Rainbow Dash.

In that exchange, Scootaloo is 100% right. She can't be a Wonderbolt. But this is never addressed in the resolution.

The episode is so focused on how Rainbow Dash feels about everything that there it doesn't even provide so much as a third option. Scootaloo realizes that the Washouts suck, but she also still can't be a Wonderbolt. It's not like that's changed. So...what now?

She has two options in front of her. One of them is problematic. The other is impossible, so she actually only has the one option. It's Washouts or nothing. The episode is so focused on Rainbow Dash that it never actually seems to notice that it didn't provide a third option. It seems to think that going back to Rainbow Dash and the Wonderbolts is an option for Scootaloo despite her very definitively pointing out that it's not and, in fact, never was.

Thus, there really isn't any resolution for Scootaloo. When the credits roll, the Washouts still suck and she still can't be a Wonderbolt. Nothing has actually been resolved except for Rainbow Dash having her fan back. But the episode's content to call that an conclusion because it doesn't f*cking care about Scootaloo; the whole thing, from start to finish, was just about Rainbow Dash and how she feels about everything.

They raised the conversation point of Scootaloo's disability, having no actual interest in talking about it, just for the sake of a Wham Moment that makes Main Character Rainbow Dash feel bad.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 9th 2018 at 1:32:10 PM

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GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#188237: Sep 9th 2018 at 1:03:54 PM

[up] Well, it ends with Dash making a Fanclub for Scootaloo to give back to Scoots for all the love and adoration she's given to RD pretty much unconditionally over the years, and show her how many people there are who think Scootaloo is already awesome. I got the impression that Scoots is allowed to do whatever she wants now, and RD will be there for her. That's the major change here. Hopefully, moving forward, with whatever Scootaloo decides to do, RD will support her in her decisions. The story wasn't really about answering the question of what Scootaloo will do with her life, just getting rid of Dash's need for Scoots to follow HER life, and being confronted with the knowledge that Scoots won't fly, hearing the way Scoots said it, was needed for RD to reach that point.

At least, that's how I saw it.

Kaze ni Nare!
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#188238: Sep 9th 2018 at 1:12:22 PM

Wasn't there a "Wonderbolts Derby" in "Sweet and Elite"?

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Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#188239: Sep 9th 2018 at 1:35:51 PM

I wonder if there will be an episode where Apple Bloom will renounce apples and become a banana fan. grin That would be a very interesting episode for Applejack.

Optimism is a duty.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#188240: Sep 9th 2018 at 1:43:17 PM

By the way, it looks like MLP is now scheduled to leave Netflix on September 15th. They're just going to keep renewing it week by week forever, aren't they?

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#188241: Sep 9th 2018 at 2:30:58 PM

Or until the season is over, perhaps.

Optimism is a duty.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#188242: Sep 9th 2018 at 2:34:00 PM

They probably want to keep it but are struggling with the negotiations, so they keep getting temporary extensions while they haggle. At least that's my guess.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#188243: Sep 9th 2018 at 5:31:13 PM

Well, it ends with Dash making a Fanclub for Scootaloo to give back to Scoots for all the love and adoration she's given to RD pretty much unconditionally over the years, and show her how many people there are who think Scootaloo is already awesome. I got the impression that Scoots is allowed to do whatever she wants now, and RD will be there for her. That's the major change here. Hopefully, moving forward, with whatever Scootaloo decides to do, RD will support her in her decisions. The story wasn't really about answering the question of what Scootaloo will do with her life, just getting rid of Dash's need for Scoots to follow HER life, and being confronted with the knowledge that Scoots won't fly, hearing the way Scoots said it, was needed for RD to reach that point.

The Fanclub felt patronizing to me, specifically because Scootaloo hadn't done anything to earn the adoration. It was exactly the same thing that Rainbow Dash's parents did to her all the time.

Scootaloo was presented with the opportunity to have a Coming of Age story. This was her chance to put aside her worship of Rainbow Dash and do something awesome in her own right. To, for the first time, be the one that everyone comes to watch instead of the one cheering from the sidelines. And to do it using the skills she's been honing since she first got that scooter.

In short, this was her chance to take a step towards adulthood. Yes, it was dangerous, but so what? The Crusaders did all kinds of dangerous shit while trying to find their Cutie Marks. Scootaloo's done dangerous shit in pursuit of her fandom, too, like slingshotting herself to Cloudsdale. "It's dangerous" has never been a problem before.

But instead of giving her that victory and letting her grow up a little more, the episode pulls her back and shunts her back into the childhood role she started it in. And then the characters give her a patronizing celebration for just being their special little girl.

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Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#188244: Sep 10th 2018 at 1:07:22 AM

I notice that the trope page gives Scootaloo the Jerkass Ball for this episode, but I don't feel that is entirely fair. Most teens rebel against childhood idols or reject things they used to love. It just so happens that Scootaloo knows one of her childhood heroes in person. That must be very difficult for a child to have to face, to tell your hero figure that you're not really that interested in what they do anymore.

This must be relatable to kids who have famous family members, I imagine. Maybe one of the kids of the writers or animators went through something like this? Telling your parent you don't really like the children's show they are making anymore must be quite difficult.

Optimism is a duty.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#188245: Sep 10th 2018 at 3:52:09 AM

[up][up] In a way Lightning was starting to act like RD was. Trying to force Scoots down a path she wasn't comfortable with. It's when that happened that RD stepped in to help her.

Again, I guess I just read the episode as more sincere than you did. Confalone to me feels like a guy who cares about what he's writing and the characters he's using. The episode ends with RD coming to accept that Scootaloo can do whatever she wants, and I didn't personally need Scoots to instantly find her place for that to resonate. Just the fact that RD accepts it is good for their relationship I think. Just like i think it was good for Scoots to see that RD truly was concerned for her. Throughout the episode, most of the reason Scoots was rejecting Dash so hard was because of the haze of envy colouring every action Dash took. Even the ones she was making out of love had that taint on them and it pissed Scootaloo off. I didn't want the episode to end without her realizing that RD really was looking out for her.

But for instance, if Scootaloo wanted to, say, form her own stunt troupe now, I doubt RD would object at all.

Kaze ni Nare!
StFan Since: Jan, 2001
#188246: Sep 10th 2018 at 4:37:28 AM

Hello guys. There is a bit of an issue on the recap page for the final episode of season 8. But since I realize not everybody has seen it yet, I won't discuss it here to avoid spoilers. For those who have seen it, please check the discussion page and tell me what you think.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#188247: Sep 10th 2018 at 5:18:15 AM

There really was no need to make a separate thread for that. We have a spoilers thread for this show, and in any case we could always discuss it when it airs in the US.

Optimism is a duty.
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#188248: Sep 10th 2018 at 6:16:55 AM

I'm more concerned with Scootaloo having a satisfying future than I am with her relationship with Rainbow Dash. She's at the point in her life where she's coming into her own. She's a teenager; this is the age where her relationship with her "parent" figures starts to slide out of prominence. The stage of her life where Rainbow Dash's importance fades a bit. Where she stops being defined as "Rainbow Dash's fan" and starts being defined as "Scootaloo".

Rainbow Dash will always be a part of her life, but her life isn't about Rainbow Dash. She's her own person. And that's what the episode was trying to communicate regarding the importance of letting her make her own decisions: that Scootaloo needs to be the star of her own story rather than a supporting character in Rainbow Dash's.

But that message is lost if Scootaloo isn't even allowed to be the star of the episode. It was written as an "Oh no, my child/sibling is growing up!" parental woes story. But. Like. We already have "Forever Filly". What we don't have is an honest look at the fact that as much as Scootaloo admires Rainbow Dash, Dash's career path is not available to her.

And that wouldn't have been as much of a problem if the episode didn't insist on bringing it up. By introducing Scootaloo's disability into the conversation, the episode treads on territory it isn't willing to actually talk about.

The episode is comforting to parents rather than empowering to children, and that reflects the general shift in the writers' intended targets that's been happening over the years. Rainbow Dash affirms to support Scootaloo in her choices even when they suck, and Scootaloo abruptly realizes that her choices do suck and comes home.

Despite giving Rainbow Dash the flaw of jealousy, that she absolutely knows what is best for Scootaloo is never in doubt. Scoots is depicted as a rebellious child rather than a young person trying to decide what to do with her life, while the Washouts are presented strictly as a Bad Crowd that Scoots fell in with. From the beginning, Dash is like, "I don't want you playing with those people," and she's right because the're completely one-dimensionally evil with no redeeming qualities.

And that's the issue. In this children's show for children's edutainment, a child character was given the opportunity to figure out her identity and work towards the life she wants to have, and that opportunity was taken away from her for the sake of making it all about how hard parenting is.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
KylerThatch literary masochist Since: Jan, 2001
literary masochist
#188249: Sep 10th 2018 at 6:43:01 AM

the episode treads on territory it isn't willing to actually talk about
I feel like this is a recurring problem with this series, but for the life of me, I am terrible at recalling any actual examples.

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...
Rainbow Pomeranian Lover from Central Illinois (Veteran)
Pomeranian Lover
#188250: Sep 10th 2018 at 6:53:39 AM

I saw the lesson in "Washouts" as being about not endangering yourself just to look "cool" (and to not follow someone who is trying to get you to do something dangerous that you're not comfortable with). Like it was a Take That! against Macho Masochism and similar tropes.

Granted, I interpreted it that way because I used to do contract work (mostly proofreading and digitally transcribing meeting flipcharts) for a group that helps with job safety, and one recurring theme was "don't disregard safety rules just to look 'cool' or 'macho'" (Toxic Masculinity was probably a recurring issue in the types of jobs they helped with). So my background with that influenced the way I viewed the episode and the way the Washouts were portrayed.

Plus, since Rainbow Dash disregarding Wonderbolts safety rules ended up resulting in her getting that nickname she hated, I thought it showed that she learned a lesson from that and was trying to teach it to Scootaloo.

Edited by Rainbow on Sep 10th 2018 at 8:55:52 AM


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