Right. Given the high quality of discussion on OTC about other issues, it would be nice to have some Troper input on this thorniest of Middle Eastern issues. Tropers wanting a brief overview of Israel should check out its Useful Notes page, or Israel
and Palestine's country profiles on the BBC.
At the outset, however, I want to make something very clear: This thread will be about sharing and discussing news. Discussions about whether the existence of Israel is justified would be off-topic, as would any extended argument or analysis about the countries' history.
So, let's start off:
At the moment, the two countries, prodded by the United States, are currently attempting to negotiate peace. A previous round of talks collapsed in 2010 after Israel refused to order a halt to settlement building on Palestinian land. US mediators will be present.
The aim of the talks is to end the conflict based on the "two state solution" - where independent Palestinian and Israeli states exist alongside each other. Both sides have expressed cynicism, although the US government has said it is "cautiously optimistic".
Key issues of the talks:
- Jerusalem: The city is holy to both Islam and Judaism. Both Palestine and Israel claim it as their capital. Israel has de facto control over most of it, a situation its Prime Minister has said will persist for "eternity". Some campaigners hope it can become an international city under UN or joint Israeli/Palestinian administration.
- Borders and settlements: The Palestinian Authority claims that the land conquered by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967 (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) is illegally occupied, and must be vacated by Israel in the event of a future Palestinian state. However, there are over 500,000 Israeli citizens living in settlements across the "Green line". Israel claims that a future Palestinian government would oppress or ethnically cleanse them, whilst many settlers claim that the land is rightfully theirs, as they have an ethno-religious link to it as part of the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people.
- Palestinian refugees: In 1948, around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs left the territory of the new Israeli state. The reasons why are still debated - preferably elsewhere. The Palestinian negotiators wish for them and their descendants to have a right of return to Israel. The Israeli government considers only those who were actually forced away all those years ago to have a legitimate claim (if that). The US government considers them all refugees, to Republican fury.
So you can see why its never been fixed. The religious dimension in particular has a lot of people vexed - asking Muslims or Jews to abandon Jerusalem has been likened to asking Catholics to skip communion.
Still, there's hope. Somewhere. The latest developments in the region:
- Israel has released 26 imprisoned Palestinian prisoners convicted of attacks on Israeli civilians and agreed to release another 78 in the future.
- Israel has OK'ed development of 900 new homes east of the "Green Line" in a controversial move ahead of the talks.
- Hamas is to execute publicly two prisoners in Gaza
- The new Palestinian government will not reunite the feuding Gazan and Transjordanian (West Bank) elements of Hamas and Fatah.
edited 15th Aug '13 2:10:49 PM by Achaemenid
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
If the Israeli government's past is any indication they're going to use this to discriminate against Ethiopian Jews and anyone who isn't Ashkenazi
Oh really when?
Foreign Troper
Yeah, I mean I've seen numerous far-right people complain about Israel being the only ones "allowed" to have an Ethnostate.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Beware the Crazy Man.
Netanyahu must be betting hard on Trump being president forever because this plan of his is damp squib to just about anyone who isn't a Republican (and even a few of them).
If the only buy in on the Arab side is from the Gulf, that's not really buy in at all. Not sure even Egypt can sign off on this one.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
This totally won’t cause Palestinians abroad to swing hard against the existence of Israel even more than they already have. Totally.
Foreign Troper
Don't really think they care anymore.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
In the name of being honest
Can't help but feel like the point is to make an offer the Palestinians will reject so that Kush and whoever he's consulting can point at it in the future and say "See? They don't care about peace."
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
Probably. Its either I Win or You Yose.
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I assure you, Palestinians abroad follow the situation closely.
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Trump announced his version of a peace plan for a future Palestinian state.
US President Donald Trump has unveiled his much-hyped Middle East peace plan aiming to end decades of conflict between Israelis and Palestinians.
Trump said "My vision presents a win-win opportunity for both sides, a realistic two-state solution that resolves the risk of Palestinian statehood to Israel's security."
Trump calls the offer the "deal of the century."
The plan has the strong support of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Palestinian leaders are frustrated with the Trump administration's pro-Israel policies and have refused US mediation.
Relations with Washington worsened after the United States recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital and moved its embassy there, sparking deadly clashes.
Trump's two-state plan envisions a state of Palestine with East Jerusalem as the capital.
Foreign Troper
I meant Israel doesn't care about their opinion anymore.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Israel doesn't care about any Arab's opinion, period. In fact, the only opinions they care about that are those of their preferred voting blocks (read: the ultranationalist right-wingers) and those of the governments that they buy the bulk of their essential economic and military imports from.
Edited by MarqFJA on Jan 29th 2020 at 5:32:54 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Beware the Crazy Man.
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Nice to have levity.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Servant of the Omnissiah
I get the feeling it's some obscure meme I haven't heard of. Still, amusing.
I hold the secrets of the machine.
It remindes me of one of the simpsons future episode were Saudi-Israel was the 51 state of the united states
Not sure getting the Balkans involved in the Middle East is such a good idea.
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Trevor talks about the new peace plan, still involving Jared.
Edited by Ominae on Jan 31st 2020 at 4:49:28 AM
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Link is dead. Just like any deal crafted by Kushner!
ok boomer
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
He he.
Fixed now.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Ironically, this deal might actually hurt Bibi politically. When it was first introduced, Bibi presented it as an American agreement for israel to annex settlements blocks, which he planned to start doing next week. But when the Americans heard about it they told him not to do anything rush. Now the ultra-right wing parties are angry because, without unilateral annexation, this plan is basically just Bibi agreeing to the two-states solution.
Edited by nnokwoodeye1 on Feb 1st 2020 at 1:26:11 AM
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://www.gzeromedia.com/jared-kushners-put-up-or-shut-up-peace-plan
Summary of that video.
Jared's mention that Palestinian politicians, including Abbas, needs to stop whining and figure a way on accepting the peace plan 'cause they don't have a crystal ball on when another one will come by.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Beware the Crazy Man.
They just have to wait for a Democrat in the white house (whether its this year or later), since its become such a partisan issue, I could see a dem administration throwing out the plan on its face.
Jared is a delusional buffoon.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
- slow blink* What.
I mean, it's actually an usual white ethnostate thing to say "Europe/America for the whites, Africa for the blacks, Asia for the Asians" and so on - in order to seem fair in their discrimination they'll argue that everyone should have the right to their ethnically monocultural "homelands" - so "Israel for the Jews" is totally in line with that. Its very inception was an artificial ethnostate now that you think about it, and it's only doubled down on it over time.
Edited by GoldenKaos on Jan 28th 2020 at 12:42:34 PM
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."