Superman

It was a debate about Superman, and seeing as how—ya know—Man Of Steel is one of the most relevant things about the character right now, it was kind of unavoidable. Seriously, if you didn't like the conversation, you could have intervened sooner.

But yes, Superman/Wonder Woman is decent. I'm just kind of apprehensive about it because the romantic bits are going to be really sour and awkward when they inevitably break up.

If we wake up and you wanna break up that's cool.
No, I won't blame you;
It was fun girl.

Don't say no, no, no, no-no;\\ Just say yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah;\\ And we'll go, go, go, go-go.
If you're ready, like I'm ready.

Wonder Woman! Now there is a heroine who explicitly has no "no-kill code". And is she worse off for it?

edited 22nd Dec '13 2:33:56 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

It makes sense for her, though. She was raised in an Ancient Greek Warrior Culture. Clark Kent was taught from his youth that all life is precious, and he should do everything he can to protect everyone, and because of those lessons, he loves all life on Earth.

But, yeah, sure, just reboot Superman as a sociopath with a club.

My various fanfics.

*Face Desk*

And I'm the one blamed for keeping this subject going?

How many times did the matter almost come to a close before someone started flaring it up again? This whole thing went from a debate about how effective What's So Funny... was as a message into a six page back-and-forth about how much you think Man of Steel got everything wrong and people saying otherwise.

We all need to let this die or move it over to the movies forum where it presumably is already been talked to death.

So... anyways, anyone catch the end of the last Superman/Supergirl/Superboy story?

edited 22nd Dec '13 2:50:36 AM by biznizz

Sometimes life just sucks. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Why should you expect anything different in the mediums?

Welp, at least that's the end of Kryptoni-Broly.

My various fanfics.

For now anyways. Even if Superman's turning H'el into energy to try to keep Krypton's core alive worked, it still would have been f—ked up, given that H'el was not dead and presumably fully concious, trapped in a time loop/limbo if it worked. Sometimes you have to ask if death wouldn't have been better than that kind of hell (pun not fully intended).

edited 22nd Dec '13 2:54:26 AM by biznizz

Sometimes life just sucks. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Why should you expect anything different in the mediums?

Are you serious?!

Okay, I admit I overgeneralized, but you understand what I am saying, right? This is not the forum for a a never-ending debate about Man of Steel, especially when both sides are not willing to listen or compromise.

Sometimes life just sucks. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Why should you expect anything different in the mediums?

Look, I'm just going to let it drop. I don't think that's a fair assessment, but whatever. Arguing about an argument just seems like it misses the point entirely.

At any rate, we are talking about the comics now. How has the difference between violence codes affected the relationship between Supers?

Well, so does The Doctor, he loves all life in the Universe, but he's never let that stop him. The man committed genocide at least once, and I believe there is a consensus that it most definitely was for the best.

Oh, do we have any Doctor Who/DCU crossovers? I would love to see the likes of Batman or Superman or even the Green Lanterns react to any one of these wonderful chaps. I mean, just imagine it, Time Lords VS Guardians of the Galaxy! Skaro VS Apokolips! Brainiac VS the Cybermen! Oh, and don't forget about the Timey-Wimey Ball! What a beautiful mess it would be!

edited 22nd Dec '13 5:58:49 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Well, there was plenty of opportunity to overview and analyse just that after Wonder Woman killed Maxwell Lord by, you guessed it, snapping his neck; but then everything changed when the reboot arrived. I wasn't that familiar with those DC heroes willing to pull the trigger before that, much less now. A couple of pointers over who's who in the killing department would come in handy. From what I've seen over at Marvel, I'd expect the difference of views to range between open hostility and grudging acceptance.

His Parallax-related murder spree aside, Hal Jordan has also blown up the occasional alien without much debate springing from that, for some reason. Thus, there's an interesting counterpoint between an alien vigilante who has, solely due to inborn superpowers, unofficially appointed himself as a model for humans to follow; and a human who, by virtue of his bravery, was chosen by an actual alien authority, in order to protect and represent not just Earth, but the entire star sector around it, and isn't too squeamish to crack some skulls while he's at it. Now that would be a clash of views I'd like to see explored.

(On a separate note, a similar parallel can be made between Batman, by far among the most brutal of vigilantes while never resorting to an actual kill shot; and Green Arrow, who usually has a much softer demeanor, yet still fires the occasional broadhead when the situation calls for it. And that's not even going into the TV series, where he's a killer through and through, but morally no worse for wear because of it.)

edited 22nd Dec '13 12:27:16 PM by indiana404

You know, watching the Superman vs. Hulk CGI fan trailer, it just drives home the point that Superman's classic uniform is far better than that stupid unitard.

"But, yeah, sure, just reboot Superman as a sociopath with a club."

Superboy!Prime?

edited 25th Nov '14 8:09:04 PM by AnotherGuy

The main Superman thread is here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13663191440A21817500&page=21#509

Well, I remember at the start of this tread, I made post explaining why death of Superman was a terrible story but I still liked it.

That post got no responses so... how about Superman's powers? You talked about start as baby, start as adult, somewhere in between but what about when his powers came from Krypton having higher gravity? What about when Krypton was an ancient, highly advanced society obsessed with reaching human perfection but came to an end because the planet it was on exploded due to internal quakes?

Those origins are of course, more in line with Golden age, when Wonder Woman had superpowers because all women have superpowers but are suppressed by living in a man dominated world but she lived on an island free of men.

The heavy world one doesn't do much for me(that extreme loss in pressure would still probably require some kind of secondary power-I liked John Carter's addition of technology, though he predates Superman) but I like Superman: the result of a crazy, civilization spanning, planetary wide project. The only adaptation I remember going with that is that old technicolor cartoon and even then, it only gets a mention. Okay, and there is also Virtue, the Superman parody sidekick of Spider-man, who replaced "Human perfection" with "Skrull perfection" (incidentally, he's about the only Superman ripoff of Marvel's I liked) but no else uses that as the basis of his powers though.

For one, it sidesteps the inter species romance with Lana Lang, unless you believe Superman's become so isolated and modified his sperm and her pheromones would no longer be compatible. It explains why there are other Earth like ecosystems, though also raises the question of just when people got into space. And of course it raises the possibility for other transplanted humans and maybe other societies more familiar with Superman than he is with himself.

What does it do to Superman's psyche? He's not just an alien who got lucky, he's literally better than you. Does he understandably act this way? Does he remain humble and if so, why? Now his "the man of tomorrow" moniker actually applies. Does this alter the Legion Of Superheroes at all?

That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes

...I don't know what to say. That's a lot of thought put into Superman's powers and nickname.

Incidentally, on the other side of the thinking spectrum, I wish DC would remind readers again that one of Superman's friends (outside of the superhero world) is a mermaid; they dated for a while in college, but I guess it broke off because it got weird, but Lori was still canon and would surface occasionally, all the way up to the reboot.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

Yeah, Lori was a staple of the Silver Age, her last pre-Byrne appearance being when she was killed during Crisis on Infinite Earths. Byrne later had it that she only pretended to be dead so Superman wouldn't...I dunno...obsess over her or stuff. Given that she'd already married an Atlantean dude and Superman was apparently more or less okay with that, one wonders if it was Lori herself or just John Byrne who thought Superman would be an obsessive twit.

The original Lori story is actually very sweet, in a goofy Silver Age way, with the two breaking up because they were from "different worlds" and such. I felt her continued reappearances weakened the original story; trust Mort Weisinger to beat an idea into the ground. Still, that's just me.