The Scrappy Cleanup

Can you then, 100% without using some place like reddit, prove that there is a actual rate of hating to liking for her? If a character has enough fans that like them, then it means they cannot be labeled a scrappy. If I go to reddit, I'm sure I can find just as many threads/posts/topics that say how much they love Peri. Here's an example: Peri is ranked 172 in the second Chose Your Legend's event for heroes, getting a total of 1483 votes and beating out the likes of Catria, Jaffar, Oboro, Finn, Dorcas, Clair, Gerik etc. In the first she was ranked 75 with 3892 votes, beating out people like Seth, Soren, Sumia, etc. Both of those are very high for the series having over 300 characters if you ask me. The point I'm making is that I can claim all I want "X is a scrappy the fandom hates them", but as soon as I see even anything that shows a decent amount of love from fans, it means they do not fit.

Apologies for the confusion. Was typing this response and verifying some information so I wasn't aware my post as been bumped to the next page cause of you posted before me.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:20:42 AM by keyblade333

Uh, I don't think we are disagreeing here.

EDIT: never mind.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:18:30 AM by RAlexa21th

Yeah there's more solid evidence pointing toward peri not being a scrappy than evidence toward her being a scrappy. For what little popularity poll can prove, it's mroe than just asking on gamefaqs or serenes forest.

You're forgetting that popularity polls like this are really bad for judging negative opinions. Many of the characters she outranks, like Saber or Mae, are decidedly NOT as disliked by the general fandom as Peri. The reason she's ranked higher than them is not because the fandom at large actually has a more positive opinion of her than those other characters, it's because the voices of the people who dislike her aren't being heard because THAT WASN'T WHAT THE POLL WAS ABOUT. You're using a poll that in no way actually proves your point to prove your point. If it does, than now we have to start looking at the reputation of other characters based entirely on their relation to Peri. And we all know that's ludicrous, right? No, we judge scrappy status based on the amount of negative reception in relation to positive reception, which the poll DID NOT MEASURE, and, from my perspective as someone actively engaged in the FE fandom, is largely populated by people who dislike Peri.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:27:41 AM by bigbossdiego

The philosophy of this thread is "popularity polls disqualifies a scrappy but never qualify a scrappy."

If there are people who dislike Peri, well it means she's a Base-Breaking Character.

Oh, so which Fire Emblem fandom do you engage to?

edited 19th Apr '18 9:29:04 AM by RAlexa21th

That's insane. Popularity polls are not in any way good at measuring negative vs positive opinions of a character because that's not at all what they were designed for. You're totally utilizing the results of the poll in a way they should never be used. The whole of it. From veterans who've played every game, to new fans who started with Awakening. I've been around Serenesforest, the FE Subreddit, and various other groups on tumblr, Facebook, and Twitter.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:31:16 AM by bigbossdiego

Ranking high on popularity polls show that the character has a lot of fans.

Which is an automatic disqualifier.

Why don't we take a concensus?

Peri

Proof of dislike is shaky as best. Proof of fans is more solid.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:30:56 AM by RAlexa21th

this post is ignoring so many facts when claiming the other side is the one ignoring facts makes it's almost funny.

If you look last page, it's mentionned peri ranked higher than other characters in FATES. like rinkah. Is rinkah a scrappy because less people like her than peri ? No ? thought so. the official fates centric poll also place her in middle ranking, not bottom. https://mynintendonews.com/2015/11/29/heres-the-fire-emblem-if-fates-character-popularity-poll-results/

here's also the results of the heroes polls counting only the fates character. Peri outranks half the whole cast.

https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2017/02/20/fe14-fates-choose-your-legends-poll-results-analysis/

You are the one ignoring facts that does not fit your narrative.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:32:45 AM by Yumil

My point, which you very clearly missed, was that I can easily find evidence that says the opposite, and that going around finding it from potentially biased sources doesn't work here. The Chose Your Legend polls were people voting based on who they liked. If Peri beat out characters like Catria, Sumia, Panne, Finn, etc, then it means enough people liked her to vote for her, which resulted in her beating out others who probably are more liked. I like Finn more then I like Peri, but the CYL polls are a good example of a more acceptable way to judge a character. If Peri was...lets say at around rank 350 with eight votes, then sure, you could make the argument she isn't very liked. However the point that's being made is that running to sites like reddit, which has a disgustingly toxic fe community, and using posts there as evidence, isn't acceptable here. As it stands now you've not actually argued anything except for "I KNOW I HATE HER SO YOU ALL HAVE TO HATE HER TOO".

edited 19th Apr '18 9:31:46 AM by keyblade333

Jesus Christ, let me break it down for you guys: A character having a seemingly large amount of fans does not inherently indicate a good reputation if you aren't directly measuring them against the amount of people who dislike them. If we suddenly did a poll asking both who the most liked and most hated characters in the game were and separated them both, Peri could very well be the 20th most popular ignoring the amount of people voting for her negatively, while still being the most hated character in the game. You can't use a poll with a strictly positive answer pool to judge the degree of hate a character receives because that's NOT what the poll is measuring. That is NOT how statistics work.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:34:46 AM by bigbossdiego

Okay, if there is solid numerical proof of her haters, then why don't you show us?

And don't forget that there is no doubt a number of people who have no strong feeling about her.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:36:54 AM by RAlexa21th

"Strictly positive score". Its called not voting for her. The point was to vote for popularity and pool them together. Peri ranking as high as she did means that enough people like her to not be a scrappy. Also why would they include a dislike option to the vote? That makes no sense.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:37:26 AM by keyblade333

Actually, what you're saying goes compeltely against tvtropes policy for scrappies, soooooooo nope. A scrappy is a character actively hated by the majority of the fanbase, and popularity in a poll that places that high tend to prove peri does not achive that status.

You also still have yet to provide any evidence that peri is widely hated beside the small percentage of the vocal base on Gamefaqs/Serenes.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:37:58 AM by Yumil

This subreddit poll. If this were added to her CYL poll results for a net value, her rank would already drop like a rock. And if it were proportional to the amount of people who actually participated in the poll, you bet your ass it would be higher.

https://www.strawpoll.me/13094775/r

edited 19th Apr '18 9:42:01 AM by bigbossdiego

two hundred and five votes. that's cute. Peri achives 4K votes on the CYL poll.

297 votes!

Peri has 2000+ votes on CYL!

So you proved that 200+ out of 2 millions fans hate her.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:39:45 AM by RAlexa21th

Now, you could make the argument that the same applies to other characters as well, that their ranking would also drop by a net value if we did this to them, but the thing is, they held this for a large deal of other "hated" characters in the franchise, and Peri's is the most lopsided of them all. https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/6g8285/results_what_does_this_sub_think_of_hated/ Actually in Round 2, she had 1400.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:39:52 AM by bigbossdiego

that's still barely 5% of her cyl 1 score. that just doesn't work. edit : CYL 2 had significantly less voters and, more importantly, factored different stuff such as in-game utility and who needed to get an alt.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:40:55 AM by Yumil

It's one seventh, and it's a good sample size. If factors such as in-game utility are muddying the waters even more, that just lends the poll even less credence as a judge of character popularity.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:41:09 AM by bigbossdiego

You're ignoring my point but even admitting that, a seventh of her fandom is still not enough to qualify for scrappydom.

The first CYL poll was done before FEH was out/was barely out and the meta hadn't solidifed so in game utility or Alts didn't factored in. CYL 2 was very clearly wieghed to create alts of the popular characters form the get go. I'm just stating CYL 2 isn't as neutral than CYL 1 was.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:43:19 AM by Yumil

Yeah, Reddit proved 200 people disliked her. CYL proved 1400 people liked her.

And she is hated by Reddit, so what? She is disliked by a tiny faction of a fandom.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:43:12 AM by RAlexa21th

It's not the exact numbers that matter, it's the percentage of people. A few hundred is a substantial sample size for getting the general opinions of fans, and 70% of them DON'T like her. If you scaled that up to the CYL poll size, it gets even worse for peri.

this disregard that the reddit poll is inherently biased because reddit isnt a total representation of the whole FE fandom, so you can't just put the numbers to the scale of CYL and argue that's the actual hatedom of peri.

edited 19th Apr '18 9:44:55 AM by Yumil

A general opinion of English speaking fans, who post on Reddit, whose members combined is about 77K, which is 3% of Fate's sales (not counting various factors that would drive this number lower)

edited 19th Apr '18 9:46:43 AM by RAlexa21th

Okay, so what IS a good representation of the FE fandom by your standards? Because at this point it just seems like you're moving the goalposts.