One Punch Man

I don't think Sasuke got cut for time. He legit got a final boss with Naruto where they beat each other nearly to death and then almost died when their arms exploded.

And prior to that they almost killed each other with their entire arsenals of ninja magic.

Edited by FOFD on May 13th 2022 at 12:39:17 PM

That fight took 3 chapters. By Naruto standards that's not a final boss at all. Especially compared to what Kaguya took before.

Similarly the important fight is stripped of all substance here to make way for the miryad of other fights that were supposed to serve as a buildup to the main event, but somehow ended up the other way around.

There's no amount of redraws that can salvage the entire chapters' (plural!) worth of content missing here. It's astonishingly rushed. If ONE truly was behind this, I can only suspect Executive Meddling or something.

Edited by Luminosity on May 13th 2022 at 8:21:16 PM

I think they can potentially salvage it if they completely replaced the sage centipede fight with the S rank fight (maybe have Metal Bat fight him first), then have the others join in since they just got healed (in the current manga they basically got healed for nothing). Then have the Garou fight play out like in the webcomic. It would probably still be shorter than how long the previous fights (particularly psykorochi) got drawn out but it's a huge improvement.

And yeah, I do wonder if there's executive meddling. Psykorochi is so long and had all the S rank heroes joining in that it feels like it was meant to be a season finale of the anime. Maybe they decided not to have Garou be the final antagonist of the next season and just have him be the mid-season battle so that Saitama vs Tatsumaki is the final battle of the following season.

I think it's a good idea to not speculate about behind-the-scenes events.

OR ONE wanted to change up the Arc so its not a carbon Copy of the original while also providing future world building for the series (its even in the chapter, with what looks like a Temple for the Webcomic only monster Cruel Dragon appearing. )

Merely wanting to not have things be a carbon copy doesn't explain making the final climatic fights that several years of buildup led up to be much shorter than a newly made "filler" fight that had no reason to be that long. It doesn't explain the huge tone change from most of the MA arc being mostly serious and unironic, having entire chapters for what were originally one page gags, creating multiple new monsters to defeat for a bigger spectacle, only to abruptly change to making things light-hearted and nonserious for the final battle. It doesn't explain the dozens of chapters that had to be redrawn.

The redraws in particular prove that there was definitely something going on behind the scenes which had ONE wanting to change his mind multiple times.

Also regarding the future world-building, speaking in terms of just the manga, a bit here and there would've been great, but shoving these completely unrelated events that are mostly glorified cameos in almost every other chapter becomes intrusive and bloat the series by constantly interrupting the current arc. The majority of these foreshadows are for things way in the far future anyway so it'd make more sense to have foreshadows closer to when they're about to actually happen unless they're considering skipping future webcomic arcs which would make most of the foreshadowing pointless.

I do think all the "manga do it all wrong" train is still too early. I mean the fight with Garou haven't truly ended if you ask me. Sure, they are no longer punching each other, but this doen't mean the "fight" truly end. Garou still has his hang-ups and think he is right, after all.

In fact, I'm starting to think all those previous S-rank heroes' fights are there to make up for all the changes to the final confrontation between Saitama and Garou that seem to go for more let's have an honest talk than a fight. I think some of you also suffer from hyping up the fight between Saitama and Garou by yourself all those years.

Edited by SteamKnight on May 14th 2022 at 4:07:02 PM

And it's not just that the big climactic Garou fight is shorter than some of the fights preceding it, it's shorter than the webcomic version of the Garou fight. It outright skips or speeds through multiple plot points in that fight to make room for dumb gags about Garou accidentally saving people, which add nothing to his or Saitama's characters because neither are doing it intentionally.

There were multiple moments in the original Garou fight that I was super hyped to see get expanded like the Boros fight. The original Garou fight is on the same level as the manga version of the Boros fight. But then they just took those moments and reduced them down to nothing.

A dramatic bit of narration about the Serious Table Flip about how "In front of Zombieman's eyes, a wall of black appeared" became something cool happening in the background of a scene about the weaker heroes. Several pages of Garou dissecting Saitama's fighting style and lack of skill to reveal that he can dodge Saitama's punches by reading his muscle movements before he even throws the punch got replaced by a couple lines of generic dialogue about how he can "read his moves". Garou's epic and sad transformations at the end of the fight where he throws away his martial arts skill in exchange for more power out of desperation were moved to the start of the fight and didn't change his mindset or level of skill whatsoever.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 14th 2022 at 2:11:54 AM

Yeah, even if the fight continues it's just not going to feel natural anymore.

I also really don't think simply expecting the battle to have the same or similar story beats as the webcomic battle instead of completely changing it and the tone was hyping it up too much. In fact, the manga tried to give a new impressive feat of Garou pushing Saitama through the core which is apparently the best feat in the series and it just doesn't have the narrative impact. I don't feel like a therapy talk no jutsu is really going to make up for it. Especially when it already doesn't flow very well with Garou whose main trait was supposed to be his extremely stubborn indomitable will just giving up in order for it to happen.

Yeah, I see people being like "oh, the S-Class Heroes are gonna get back up, and Garou is gonna fight them and become the REAL Awakened Garou, then he and Saitama are gonna have their REAL fight" and it's like no. That can't happen. If that happened, it would suck. It would just be repeating a lot of the same story beats we just had over again, once that genie's out of the bottle, you can't put it back in. You can't just undo everything that has already happened, Garou already lost his threat level, you can't give it back.

The only way to fix this would be to literally undo everything that just happened by doing EXTENSIVE redraws, which would be a fairly drastic reaction. And that wouldn't undo the fact that those chapters still existed at one point, the surprise factor for manga readers is already gone.

I might be the only one who actually enjoy where this fight is going...

As far as I see it, the physical fight between these two were just the warm-up to allow Garou some venting and get his ears unplugged.

Now, tired and out of physical fighting-spirit, he is finally ready to engage in the "true" fight and beatdown that Saitama is about to give him. Since talking and fighting at the same time is just not going to work like in other series, this simply got split into two parts.

The physical one, that is irrelevant in Saitama's case since he is, well, Saitama.

Now comes the "Philosophical Fight".

Time for Garou to finally lay all his cards on the table and see if he can win where all his combat-prowess have failed him.

And I am honestly excited to see where this is going...

Well all of that is already done in the webcomic in a more organic and honestly more mature way. Garou is more resentful in the WC which makes Garou lashing out all his frustrations and Saitama finding the root of the issue a natural and satisfying epiphany for them both. Manga Garou is much more obviously insecure and tsundere and already doing heroics and blatantly caring for Tareo that any of Garou's reasoning is going to seem a lot more absurd and easily taken down. I can already forsee him doing the stock "w-what are you talking about i-idiot" routine. His being tired and out of physical spirit was more visible in the webcomic too where he desperately tried to continue flailing feebly at Saitama even as he got weaker and weaker until he could barely stand whereas Manga Garou just randomly gives up after going through a number of moves even though his whole point was being able to evolve past his limits after hitting a wall that he couldn't break through. In the WC, he constantly evolves until he couldn't evolve further and starts to become weaker because Saitama is just that unfathomably strong. In the manga, he just... stops and wants to die?

You're definitely not the only one who's enjoying the fight though. Murata's art is definitely good enough that it can make stories much worse than the current manga palatable.

Yeah, the problem with the manga isn't in the art, that's still amazing, it's definitely in the writing. And the writing isn't necessarily bad, having the Garou fight be much more comedic and obvious about Garou's noble intentions is a good contrast to the much more intense and longer monster battles that happened earlier (whereas in the webcomic, the monster fights are a bit more comedic and much shorter).

It's just that the webcomic version was so much better. The manga Garou fight is okay, if a little rushed. A tad too comedic and cliche. The webcomic Garou fight is one of the all-time highlights of the entire series. It's one of the few parts of One Punch Man where ONE feels like he's bringing his A-Game in the writing and paneling department, just like he does in Mob Psycho 100 (which makes sense why he doesn't usually bring his A-Game to OPM, OPM is a free webcomic that he started as a hobby, while MP100 was a serialized work in a magazine that he got paid for).

My crackpot theory is that a lot of these changes are Murata's doing because ONE is busy with Mob Psycho 100 season 3 of the anime, but I know that's unsubstantiated and unfairly pinning all of my gripes on Murata.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 14th 2022 at 4:12:51 AM

Can y'all wait until the arc is over...

Indeed, the writing isn't necessarily bad. One change I do like is Saitama is much much more invested into this conflict and more aware right off the bat. You could even chalk it up to character development going from "20 words or less" to this and actually taking King's words about "strongest hero is not necessarily the best hero" to heart. (side note I love King he's such an amazing parody of a shonen mentor)

But the fight is just too rushed, and missing nearly all of its crucial components. It's not even that it takes a whole 2 chapters less than the webcomic, it's also that the space we DO have is wasted on unintentional savior gags and Blast foreshadowing. (Blast has already overstayed his welcome for me, his overinsertion into this arc reeks of bad MCU cameos, where setting up future stuff and building hype overrides the currently ongoing plot)

I can sympathize with not wanting to do the same thing twice, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do-over your own work. Invincible comes to mind, if we want to talk about the right way.

The Blast stuff really bugs me because Blast is still almost a total mystery in the webcomic. We know WAY more about him from the manga, and uh... to keep things non-spoilery, Blast being mysterious is kind of a plot point for the future.

To get into spoilers: Blue's entire character is gonna hit SO DIFFERENT. Also Tatsumaki's tragic backstory with Blast, which the manga already revealed long before her stint as an Arc Villain.

As for some other changes... there is such a thing as too much foreshadowing. You want a twist to be predictable based on context clues, but not so predictable that everyone has already figured it out long beforehand. You want it to make sense in hindsight, but still come as a surprise. Such as Flash and Sonic's shared history, or the fact that Sweet Mask is a monster.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 14th 2022 at 5:05:23 AM

Honestly, so many things have been changed without the S class fight. Fubuki never establishes that she used to be close friends with Psykos. It was sort of implied but never confirmed unlike the direct interaction they had in the WC making it ironically an instance where there's LESS foreshadowing than the webcomic.

Psykos herself has escaped so either they catch her offscreen or they have to have another brand new fight with her, both of which don't sound ideal. I suppose they could have a short bout where a tired Psykos suddenly meets Fubuki who catches her with ease which would be anti-climatic but is probably the best solution at this point.

Fubuki in the WC invites Saitama to meet Psykos as backup against Tatsumaki since she knows Saitama is strong after beating Garou, who she was terrified of. This dynamic is gone in the manga since Saitama doesn't do anything like that in front of her anymore. Fubuki and Tatsumaki's relationship is also a lot closer in the manga making their falling out in the WC seem more awkward.

Zombieman doesn't learn of Saitama's limit breaking which was meant to follow up on what Genus has previously told him earlier. Flash's dynamic with Saitama is also difference since in the WC he knows that Saitama beats Garou, who had trounced him, but in the WC all he's seen is that Saitama can keep up with him which isn't as impressive. Sweet Mask's whole arc with Saitama is also now entirely gone and has to be entirely rewritten. It really is going to be hard to reconcile all these changes, if they don't decide to just drop these arcs entirely and focus on manga exclusive content.

Edited by Shad0wSmoke on May 14th 2022 at 5:53:18 AM

I'm half wondering if they're just gonna end the manga here, with a big weird ending tacked onto the end of the Garou arc where Blast and his team fight Garou, who gets a power-up from God, then the manga ends with Garou breaking free and Saitama fights God in an epic final battle.

Just completely ignore all of the build-up for the future webcomic arcs and go for a Gainax Ending, why not at this point?

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 14th 2022 at 5:56:30 AM

I don't believe the manga will end here but I do wonder if contrary to people's expectations they're actually going to put the God arc right here since now that I think of it, God isn't mentioned in the WC any further. Would explain why Garou feels like a side character and why God's moon is placed everywhere. Seriously, look how many times it appears in the last few chapters.

Edited by Shad0wSmoke on May 14th 2022 at 6:52:15 AM

Just chiming in to say I'm still enjoying this. Saitama being unbeatable is his whole thing, so trying to drag out the fight and make it "epic" would be a mistake IMHO. A short, sweet fight where Saitama deflates all of Garou's buildup by humiliating him, deconstructing his edgelord bullshit, and then playing therapist for Garou's issues is about perfect for me.

Also, I get the feeling that Garou vs. Saitama being an anticlimax after all the buildup is part of the joke. YMMV on how well that works for you but it's much more in line with OPM being a parody then the straight shonen action series it's been for most of this arc so I'm happy with the return to it's original tone.

That is literally how the WC did it, but WC managed to make it epic and treat the characters with dignity at the same time.

I don't mind the anticlimax in itself. The issue is all the absurd fights leading up to it. But then I feel like maybe the anticlimax wouldn't work for me if it wasn't balancing out all those long, boring battles.

Also, reminder, Garou's threat-level has not dropped in the slightest even with the physical part of the fight with Saitama being over.

(The Threat-Level in question? The guy can now literally Destroy the Earth with his fists alone)

And the only person that can handle him at this point in this state, is Saitama.

If Saitama can't give Garou the much needed lecture to discourage him from keep going with this charade, then the planet is screwed once he resumes what he was doing.

Keep that in mind.

Edited by TitanJump on May 14th 2022 at 6:41:00 PM

l lol this is again something done better in the webcomic. In the manga, Garou has already teamed up with Metal Bat to take down a monster. He visibly feels bad when he sees Tareo upset. He saves people on accident and the people he gets saved by aren't that intimidated that they won't thank him. Hell, even Suiryu thinks he's faking when seeing him on TV. Meanwhile, WC Garou terrifies Fubuki into a fetal position with his mere presence. He effortlessly blitzes the S class, laying out their hypocrisies while flash stepping in front of each of them, lies to Tatsumaki that he left Fubuki's corpse in the corner and effortlessly tanks her attack, and curbstomps the rest of the team. He then pretends to threaten Tareo (while in actuality walking away from him, which only Saitama could notice, which is a more clever and cool way to hype up Saitama rather than the goofy juvenile way of smiling like a troll) if none of the S class could stand up to him and they can't, even though Darkshine and Flash are able to take a few more hits, which are two impressive moments for DS and Flash that are left out of the Manga. He is then treated much more seriously by Saitama in the following battle. Spoilers for the way the WC handles it. I really think you should read the WC for yourself since you might be surprised at just how much better it's presented in the WC.

For the record if you want to get into the WC from where it really deviates I suggest starting from Chapter 70. It lasts to chapter 94. 24 chapters but each chapter is quite a bit shorter than a manga chapter. There's a good cubari link on the one punch man subreddit.

Edited by Shad0wSmoke on May 14th 2022 at 11:41:33 AM

...ehhhhhhhhh...

While you and PMC have your points I feel like you two are way too antagonistic towards the manga and give the webcomic too much credit.

Edited by FOFD on May 15th 2022 at 4:15:22 AM