Dept. Heaven General (Riviera, Yggdra Union, KitN, Gungnir)

Ok, I played through first few missions...I'll try summarize some basic mechanics in Gungnir:

The game plays like most SRPG out there, with move and attack...although your ability is tied to equipments, not stats ( which only has 3 or 4 of em)...

Tr turn order is like in FFTA 2, but the one for your team is for an entire party, not individual character...if you move a character, then there will be countdown on that character and if you try to move them again you will reduce that character's max HP got that battle...

The most important thing is the tactics point, which can be gained by moving around...it has several uses:

• Some abilities have their stats scaled with your tac points, the more the better...
• Beat: combo attack using several characters...amount of characters you can use in a beat depends on how many bases you capture...position of your characters and enemies matters...
• Boost: boost ally's stats you must be beside char you want to boost when you choose the action...
• Scramble: the touted turn interrupt...you can use tactics point to get yourself early move, but the amount of the point must be larger than the remaining team cool down tick...
• Looting dead enemies: if enemies flee, they will drop single item that you can get without using tac point...if they die, you will have to use tac points to loot it, but toucan choose a single equipment from all the things the enemy carries
• changing equipments: if you are at your base you can spe tac point to change your character's loadout

There's more I think, but didn't get that far yet...

edited 14th Jun '12 11:22:36 PM by onyhow

I've updated the OP a bit with info provided by .

I'm waiting for the Vita thing to get pushed through. In the meantime, I've got quite a bit of other backlog to tackle, so I won't be discussing the game much.

Having a fun time with Gungrir. The battle system is... odd, but not difficult to grasp or implement. Honestly, the only thing that gave me trouble so far was realizing the first battle against Pierre was unwinnable. I went "wait wait wait, what if I..." and restarted the battle at least a few times before I finally lost and went "...oh. Bur, you're dumb."

Oh jeez it's been a long time since I've played a Dept Heaven game.

...I wonder if gunners have any advantage over archers and javelineers (whatever the name is) in Gungnir...the need to attack in straight line and no arching is extremely annoying...

edited 18th Jun '12 8:36:34 AM by onyhow

So I uploaded the translated version of Yggdra Union Anthology Comic...credits to Lacrima Castle fansite...

I've been replaying a bit of Knights while I wait for the Gungnir issue to be resolved.

It's kind of funny how I completely forgot about weapon skills when I was playing Scene 1. I wasted ten turns hitting and splitting the slime near the first knight. Then I realized I was forgetting THE AXE. ATTACHMENT.

Christ, I love this game. It's such a shame that the game is artificially easier (to me, anyway) due to being able to have more exact control of the Wisp.

I HATE CANNONS. >(

So I've watch MageKnight404's LP of Yggdra Union up to where the Royal Army has to stomp through Monica and Canaan's militia...and read the comments...I thought about the whole situation in the game a bit, and now is totally confused why is Bronquia is supposed to be sympathetic to us...

I haven't played Blaze Union myself so feel free to correct me...still, let's analyze the whole situation:

SPOILER POST

Let's recap: At the start Bronquia army invaded Fantasinia without any adequately stated reason ^note it's definitely not in the intro...I don't know if the reason's in Blaze Union or not but from what I gather the only route in it that makes the game have adequate reason to invade is route B, which is not canon...the A route focus purely on overthrowing Soltier I think...although please correct if possible......then the Imperial Army proceed to try to cut through every allies and potential allies to Fantasinia including: slowly dooming Undine to extinction and made them attack humans ^note you might say that Nessiah do this alone, but you can't really throw out Zilva's comment on the situation, supporting Juvelon and start the whole Meria civil war, leaving the desert totally unguarded and make the whole region susceptible to bandit attacks and others, then support through the whole Verlaine civil war just for getting the damn Ankh...I'm sorry, but I'm supposed to be sympathetic to these guys? I definitely don't condone what the Royal Army did in the event of invasion and its actions before the story, but...what? Side A is invading side B without reason, causing lots of trouble with B and endangering others that are its allies (including genocide in one case) and endangering those that might have been neutral party...and when side B retaliates, you're now supposed to start caring for side A?...what???

And don't even get into Gulcasa's issue...he has problem dealing with losing loved ones, so he started a war with no reason and has his loved ones fight in it, and when the war that he started starts to go badly for him, he tries to end the fucking world??? Is this the guy I'm supposed to be sympathetic with???

It's like around mission 36 or 37 (definitely 39) that Sting says "Look, Bronquia is totally sympathetic! Please ignore any bad things they caused at the first half of the game!" And you know what, I think it might have been it, consider that the game actually went on for quite a long while already...

In the end, yes Nessiah caused the whole crap, but if the game could just give Bronquia adequate reason to invade in the first place I might not have ranted this...because after I've thought about everything both sides are stupid and the civilians like Monica and Canaan and those lived in the forests and desert like in Nyllard suffer the worst from this pointless war...oh, and no attempts for negotiation...

Sorry for long rant, but what do you guys think? Is my thought right or wrong? Do I miss any piece of information?

Edited by onyhow on May 26th 2019 at 10:46:49 AM

SO DO I. (You're talking about that one stage in Gungnir, right? Retried that about 5 times now. >:( )

From what I've read about Blaze Union, no, a reasonable reason isn't given. In fact, from what I've read by the end of the canon path of Blaze, Gulcasa is so depressed and desparate that he basicly invades for the sole reason of Nessiah told him to.

The PSP version of Yggdra Union did imply that Fantasinia was going to invade Bronquia eventually, but that was back when the other guy was in power, and before Gulcasa's rise to power. It is possible that the info for the planned invasion was "leaked" to Gulcasa (via Nessiah probably) and the invasion was a preemptive measure, but that doesn't justify the Undines (though since you find Undine troops in Bronquia, I think it's implied they found out their magic rock was there and relocated/started serving under Gulcasa) or all the manipulating that goes on. One could argue it was strategy, break up the enemy's allies so that they can't band together to fight you off, but it doesn't make it less of a dick move in some cases.

I think one of the things about Gulcasa is that he is pretty much in way over his head, and like Yggdra at the beginning, doesn't actually understand the horrors of war. By the end of the game, however, nether really want to fight anymore, but Gulcasa's angst fest (you will be coming up on the latest reason for that) and his warrior pride causes him to refuse to surrender. Gulcasa and Yggdra are more or less the same, but while Yggdra had more or less benevolent allies and people willing to call her out on her shit, Gulcasa had Nessiah pulling the strings, psychos like Leon who wouldn't fight morally even if Gulcasa personally told them to, and for the most part, an army of yes men who wouldn't question anything he did.

I got into a ramble, sorry.

edited 25th Jun '12 12:50:31 PM by Otherarrow

Barring any info that wouldn't know about in Blaze Union...yup, that all sounds about right.

edited 25th Jun '12 1:38:08 PM by Barrylocke

YES! The one with the cannons on the rails and the 9 squares of damage and the burn Do T. I've had to put the game down for a while so I don't end up hating it.

Moral ambiguity is really hard, especially when the story for a game needs to give the player motivation to win. Yggdra Union makes Bronquia act in a really nasty manner to motivate Yggdra, but later on goes "Oh, but they had a reason!" There needs to be first, a good reason, and second, no matter how good and noble the goals, the means have to be within certain limits. Yggdra starts to go past those limits, and she realizes it. Gulcasa completely fails to notice.

How hard is Gungnir? I remember being glad Knights In The Nightmare had easy modo.

I'm playing the hard mode (can't remember what it's called... advanced?) and it's challenging, but not brutal. ...EXCEPT FOR THOSE FUCKIN' RAIL CANNONS.

Gungnir is being streamed by Finest KO if you're interested

So I guess that difficulty is good for if I want a tricky, but not brutal, game?

edited 25th Jun '12 7:48:47 PM by Barrylocke

Pretty much. For all I know I've hit the wake-up level and the rest is going to be full of "oh you have GOT to be kidding me", but so far it's been pretty fair. The enemy AI really likes to stack tactics points and then brutally combo you in the endgame, though.

@Otherarrow: consider that thre are also undines in the desert oblivious to the loss of transmigragem, methinks it's more of slow news do those outside the nation don't realize it yet...

It's also funny that players who defend Bronquia don't bring up their past atrocities up or consider them much at all...

@Balmung: From what I heard KitN easy mode might be more annoying due to lowered object durability that might make you accidentally put it into fragile state without releasing it's content...

I got some Gungnir question: when will Ragnus and Valerie leave? When will Valerie rejoin? And in stage...8? (Pierre has ballista here) is there only one way to get up to him?

Initial Gungnir has the difficulty level of beginner and advanced...although not sure what is supposed to be correspond to normal easy/normal/hard....

edited 25th Jun '12 8:03:44 PM by onyhow

In all fairness, Yggdra had people willing to call her out when she crossed those limits, while Gulcasa had people like Nessiah and Leon who wanted him to cross those limits (abit for completely different reasons) and everyone else was too in love with him to question anything he did. But yes, otherwise, you are right.

I don't recall the desert Undines actually. If they were with Bronquia, it is possible they came from Bronquia and were just deployed there.

And yeah, Bronquia is meant to be sympathetic to a degree, but they still did some pretty awful stuff. There is a reason we are with Yggdra and are rooting for her after all.

edited 25th Jun '12 8:06:09 PM by Otherarrow

^ Nah, those undines are just neutral parties living in the oasis...and true with the latter...although the degree that Sting trying to push Gulcasa into being one of the good guys (in Unison and Blaze) is just funny consider events in the original game...not saying that he's evil, but still, too much bad stuff being glossed over...

Anyone here read the manga I uploaded yet?

edited 25th Jun '12 8:12:47 PM by onyhow

Ah, I never got the Oasis event because I missed the item needed to trigger that.

...This happens a lot. The game wants you to explore to get all the items to get all the little events and stuff, but at the same time, wasting precious movement and cards is something I can't stand to do (and rarely am able to)

I'll be honest, I think the reason they are trying to push Gulcasa as a good guy and justified and all that is because he got really popular. Basicly, they are just pandering to the base. But he isn't right in the end, he is suppose to represent a good person who has gone too far and can't go back to being right. As he dies, he mentions that he and Yggdra's souls are far apart to each other, this is because while they are very similar people, Yggdra stopped herself before she crossed the line, while Gulcasa crossed it and never looked back.

I am probably making no sense now. Sorry.

edited 25th Jun '12 8:22:17 PM by Otherarrow

I think Gungnir's even worse with that...chest with durability, have to kill enemies to have choice to loot things...turn limit on stars...crystals...and weird after battle loot (I got hard leather instead of flamberg +9 in first Pierre fight...)

^ Actually you're making a lot of sense here....but in the end Nessiah is a large bastard....But even that is due to Asgard...still, means and the end...

edited 25th Jun '12 8:28:18 PM by onyhow

There HAS to be a way past that stage. Shit like this is why these games should ALWAYS have random battles. Give you a chance to walk away, level up, come back at the stage with different ideas........but so far, it's story battle after story battle after story battle.......putting That One Level this early in the game is the type of thing that makes people HATE SRP Gs.

Eh I think you can retry the stage while keeping exp and stuff I think...although I would like the ability to get exp in KitN more...

edited 25th Jun '12 10:18:57 PM by onyhow

I don't mind that my guys are growing in level, I DO mind that those damned cannons keep getting me killed.