Marvel Comics General

I was lied to!

Ah well, I'll finish the previous run at least.

When people's lives are being destroyed (both figuratively and literally) by the Hulk and Mutants, that fear starts getting justified.

So you're saying all mutant should be murdered because some of them might be dangerous then?

Cause that's the same logic I re-call Indiana 404 using when he claimed those dudes from Logan were totally justified in wiping out mutants there too.

I'm not gonna say there aren't dangerous mutants (or that Marvel has specifically focused on them, probably to their detriment), but that's just not cool man. Not cool at all.

Not all of them should be murdered. However, when we have stuff like Dark Phoenix, Fatal Attractions, Apocalypse and so on, you kind of have to acknowledge that humans have very understandable reasons to be afraid.

And when the Hulk goes on a rampage that kills 24 people (which is what got him banished into space) you have to acknowledge Ross has a point no matter how much of a dick he is about it.

Ross doesn't need a point, he has a mustache.

That he can hide in hammerspace whenever he Hulks out.

The problem is with those stories where it turns out people are right to be scared, not the characters themselves. Those stories miss the point of Hulk and the X-Men.

These points are built on rather shaky ground to begin with. It’s highly questionable that a guy whose response when he gets angry is to immediately start breaking things is some misunderstood woobie. It’s flat out ridiculous to claim such a person would never kill someone even by accident.

You’re acting like that every time Banner hulks out, he’s making a deliberate choice to just people, but a lot of the time, it’s beyond his control.

Far too many people with a history of violence make that excuse.

I mean, everyone can lose their temper and take a swing at someone. When someone becomes a walking disaster when they do, OTOH...

Edited by Blueace on Nov 10th 2018 at 12:55:42 PM

I’m aware of the subtext, and I can agree that that can be problematic. I don’t think, however, that that invalidates the text, and going by the text, Banner has been dealt a very shit hand that’s in many ways out of his control.

My view of Ross is that he may have a point, but the major problem is that he only sees Hulk the monster, never Bruce Banner the human.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Nov 10th 2018 at 11:07:51 AM

Yeah. Didn't Bruce used to constantly search for cures, only for Ross to show up with his Hulkbusters and attack him, screwing things up.

Bruce was trying to fix himself, but Ross was so hellbent on stopping him that he buggered things up all the time...or was that just in that old 90's series? I'm not sure.

Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse. Again, this sugarcoating of Banner feels dangerously similar to an excuse we see used for violent criminals, typically white male mass shooters. I’m not saying I liked Ultimate Hulk being a cannibal rapist but I can admit acknowledging the Hulk’s monstrousness was one of that universe’s better ideas.

I remember how in the wake of the Vegas shooting that many felt Netflix should cancel the Punisher’s tv show as they felt promoting such a character would be in poor taste. Frankly, I feel the Hulk as a character is due for a similar recontextualising of how he is viewed.

Edited by windleopard on Nov 10th 2018 at 8:24:52 AM

The problem with what you're saying is that there is a literal in-universe explanation for why Bruce isn't to blame for his actions. You're applying real world logic to a fantastical scenario.

One could say Hulk and Banner are mentally ill and need medication, which because of people like Ross, they never get it, making things worse for everyone.

Applying real world logic to fantastical settings is what Marvel does all the time. I’m simply holding them to the standards they set for themselves.

That is fair, but I don’t think your reasoning here works, as the Hulk’s rampages are often legitimately out of Banner’s control - that is just a fact.

Your comparisons might have some merit on a subtextual basis, but if you’re saying that Banner should be held by real life standards, then you need to consider that the standards you’re holding him to are not applicable to his situation. You cannot apply real world logic to the Hulk, because there are no Hulks in real life - we do not have a set of standards for someone like him.

I’m not entirely sure how I feel about be comparison to mental illness, but I think it’s more apt than the one you’re making.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Nov 10th 2018 at 12:49:58 PM

Here's an interesting question: which would be the legal reactions to Hulk? What crimes can he charged to him?

For starters, that whole Banner/Hulk thing is, for the law, meaningless. Hulk would not be accepted as a standalone legal person, independent from Banner. It would treated as a mental disorder, but for the law there is a single person, Bruce Banner. Who says that he has no control over the actions of his other self. Does that mean he's not legally responsible for them? Though question, but see Using Multiple Personality Disorder as Legal Defense.

But even if we accept the claim, that wouldn't mean that Banner can simply walk away scot-free. It means that he must be held in a location that will treat him and prevent him from harming others. If he escapes from the military to avoid that, then he's in resistance to authority (I don't remember the exact legal figure). He may not control his actions as Hulk, but if he stays a fugitive, then the damages he may cause are more difficult to defend with that figure.

There's the recent example where the Avengers come to detain him, and he hulks out on purpose, to resist detention. When he does this, he can be considered fully responsible of whatever happens next.

Jeremy Whitley of Unstoppable Wasp reveals a cut comic from Secret Wars: Secret Love.

Dangnabbit, we've could've had it all. Though I guess America dating a non-616 Kate would be a little uncharacteristic.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 10th 2018 at 11:06:59 AM

When you have the power to reality-jump, what's to stop you from dating all the Kates?

Edited by Eldritcho on Nov 11th 2018 at 2:32:16 AM

Well some might not like or want to date America.

Just to be sure, is it cheating if you make out with another version of your significant other?

Well they are their own individuals with varying unique quirks & such so yes it kinda is.

I'm thinking of a reality show where the host finds alternate reality versions of a couple, and have them swap partners for a holiday get away.