Eh, there's definitely that, but I think it's been tempered by backlash to the New Atheism movement.

@Lula: The bothsiding is strong with that speech. It give a strong Gandhi's "Both the Jews and the Allied should just talk with the Nazi instead of fighting back." energy there that is morbidly hilarious (to me at least) since Hitler's response to Gandhi's non-violent rebellion is pretty much: "Why the British do not just shoot them all?"

I mean I'm pretty sure if the "Western" leaders ignore Ukraine the same people that complaint about them "escalating" the situation now will just go the "Western" leaders are a bunch of hypocrites who will abandon those in need and stuff. Russian government and Putin like to spin this as them being pro-Putin, but this is more of them being anti-USA and Europe.

: The churches, especially the megachurches and the evangelists (or any other fundamentalist movements), are just more prominent and by extention more annoying and even hostile there. Sadly, as you have posted, the New Atheism movement isn't exactly better in the end just much less powerful.

Most of the left's been doing that. Even those who seem moderate tends to do that too.

You know, there's a strange irony here that the evangelist churches, which are a religious minority, have gradually taken the right wing side of politics in Latin America while the Catholic Church has been moving overall towards the centre and the left.

Edited by raziel365 on May 14th 2022 at 2:25:42 AM

What does the CELAC actually do? Is it just a series of summits for organizing the agendas for other Latin American integration efforts and organizations? Because the full name^note Community of Latin Aemrican and Caribbean States makes it sound like it's an actual organization similar to the EU, ASEAN or the Arab League.

Edited by MarqFJA on May 16th 2022 at 7:24:44 PM

It try to be like EU but is to disjointed at times, it was made as alternative to grow apart of US by the left here with very mixed results.

"I swear to God, I can't believe how you hear this sort of bullshit from leaders of the one region in which people should know very well how awful it is to be treated like someone's backyard."

Dont surprise me, Zeleniski is working closely with US and Europe and that seen to mess the narrative issue of them being always chaotic evil*, what is kind of depressing lula at least is more moderate that other like nicaragua, venezuela, bolivia who just suport rusia because of course they do.

Interesting news from Colombia:

https://www.reuters.com/world/colombia-train-ukrainian-military-landmine-removal-2022-05-23/

Colombian demining (soldier) specialists are heading to Europe to train Ukrainians who are going to handle demining in the country.

Edited by Ominae on May 24th 2022 at 8:31:27 AM

Al Jazeera: Mexican president Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador says he will boycott the US-hosted Summit of the Americas over guest list that excludes Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela.

You know, AMLO should really choose better hills to die on, because saying you are going to boycott a Summit for excluding the three blatantly authoritarian states of Latin America is not a good signal for your people and other countries.

The continued aggression towards Cuba on the part of the US has nothing to do with authoritarianism it's a combination of hostility towards leftism and the establishment's psychotic unwillingness to ever back away from bad policies. He's entirely right to reject those exclusions, any leftist leader should.

Whatever point he had with Cuba he's shot in the foot by supporting Ortega and Maduro.

Maybe if the US didn't include Cuba they might have a leg to stand on, but they didn't. It's better and more consistent for leftist leaders to reject their obvious bias.

Morales shows that it doesn't matter how authoritarian you actually are when it comes to American foreign policy, they'll go after you regardless. I cannot blame any leader for accepting bad allies when the US is so obviously hostile.

And why exactly shouldn't it include Cuba? I mean, outside of being "leftist", the Castro regime is still undemocratic to this day, and if this was about being hostile to "Leftism", Chile should have been excluded as well, which it hasn't been.

Because of course AMLO is going to bat for these asshats.

AMLO just wants another boot to lick, he doesn't have any particular devotion to being anti-U.S. like the Venezuelan, Cuban, or Nicaraguan regimes do.

It's a farce anyways. He'll talk tough, make a scene, get some investment from Russian and Chinese capital (that's the whole reason to appeal to the Cuban government and the Bolivarians), but he'll do what the U.S. wants if it benefits his political standing. He's two-faced.

Edited by Diana1969 on Jun 7th 2022 at 3:41:39 AM

"He's entirely right to reject those exclusions, any leftist leader should."

Any good damn lefties should no have to acept this "US was mean to be, so I will be dictator" bulllshit the latin american left pull very often instead of engaging in this political wangst about "I dont have any choices but suport them!", we dont take that crap about Israel excuses to be a dickehead or alt right and neither we should take this shit.

Also and just to be clear: most of this "sticking to each other" arent just because US bad, is also ideological, Chavez view castro as mentor(which it should be a huge red flags on is own), Evo have always being pal of chavez since the start, Lula barely make a very tepid condemation of chavez last year. I dont get why lefties can condemn closeness between some right wing politician with one each other but when is about here suddenly is all about pragmatic aliances that should happen but dosent mean anything.

Is bullshit and have always being bullshit.

The US has spent decades excluding Cuba for no benefit to anyone, the government crying about authoritarianism (while supporting Saudi Arabia) ceases to be a compelling argument when the tactics used to combat it 1) are entirely ineffectual and 2) do nothing to help the people actually affected by it.

American policy on Cuba has accomplished nothing, there is no rational reason to reflexively cling to it.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 6th 2022 at 11:44:06 AM

The whole reason these countries are being excluded amounts to business interests. Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela are ruled by dictatorships that don't want to do business with the U.S. (but they REALLY want to do business with Russia), so they're excluded.

The U.S. only has a problem with dictatorships if they won't do business with them. They're fine with Bukele in El Salvador and Bolsonaro in Brazil, after all. Are they not also authoritarian?

What AMLO is doing is still plain opportunism, though. It's a sign of competing imperialist powers in Latin America. Russia already has a foothold in the three aforementioned nations, AMLO is seeking to suck up to Putin and company. But he is still the same man who collaborated with Trump's immigration policies. He has no actual platform beyond bogus populism. AMLO may as well be a jellyfish in a suit.

Excuse me? Cuba is blockaded, it's egregious to look at the US trying to strangle any economic potential from them and describe it as Cuba not wanting to do business with the US.

This shows a shocking ignorance of the history, the United States was hostile towards Cuba from day 01.

I will say, it's still very stupid on AMLO's part to try to suck up to Russia given how things are currently going on Ukraine and how much of a pariah it has become by its own doing.

Where did I say it was *Cuba* who is at fault for the embargo? The U.S. put the embargo in place because Castro's land reform wasn't to the liking of American business. They don't want business in Cuba unless there's a government that's friendly to their interests. Cuba doesn't want to do business until the embargo is lifted.

I'm no fan of Castroism but it ain't Castro's fault for the embargo. That's on Eisenhower, Kennedy, and the rest.

It's all about business. Morality has nothing to do with it. It's not like AMLO cares. For all his talk of "Viva los pueblos indigenas", he's worked to attack Indigenous land just like his predecessors.

AMLO can do business with the country mounting an invasion of a sovereign nation that's likely going to wind up a genocide, or he can do business with the country that's locking up Latin American immigrants in internment camps. It's just business to him. I don't think I need to explain how heinous that is.

Edited by Diana1969 on Jun 6th 2022 at 8:59:05 PM

While is also buissness, we cant discard populism and leftism out of this because they are interlink here.

ALMO always wanted to proyect himself as shit talker who stand against imperalism and all other jazz many pink tide politician try to do(and to look better than peña nieto who is protray as wimpy and useless president in general) and this is a good way to show it.

And....well, yeah I mean have being consistently neutral over maduro, he suport Maduro when Guaido proclaim himself president going against the lima group he was part off, he seen to forget how the three countries he defended how became part of a controversy in CELAC, his position have being to install the Estrada doctrine(pretty much neutrality, not intervention, self determination yadda yadda you know the drill) that in pratice it means he just enabling three authoritarian goverments.

This is just a pissing move, that it.

Populism is just a part of the business. So is putting on a "leftist" mask. They're business tactics. Lopez Obredor already pissed the EZLN off with his anti-Indigenous policies that are a direct threat to Mayan land, that should already be a knock against his "leftist" credentials (if his collaboration with Trump wasn't enough). But hey, gotta build a railroad through their land. Why? Transport. Capital. Money.

At the end of the day, he is whatever will get his base to support him. He has no identity beyond populism.

The EZLN aren't saints either: Their main leader, Sub-comandante Marcos, isn't even a native, but a mestizo guy to begin with, and they rule their areas like Native American reservations, compared with the rest of other areas ruled by indigenous people.

While I do agree with that, keep in mind Russia is still a veto holder, along with China, in the UN Security Council, and siding with a more favorable veto holder like them would be more favorable in the case the U.S. political and military influence wane.

In any case, however, I REALLY doubt AMLO would want to completely side with them at the expense of the whole country, as Mexico depends a lot from American economy to even exist. Not only the U.S. wouldn't likely allow it, since, in the case the country goes south, Mexico would swamp the States with millions of illegal aliens trying to escape the country, the entire local political and economic system would likely revolt against him at such level that it wouldn't even worth it for him at any scale, unless either Russia or China would guarantee AMLO to sent Russian or Chinese troops or military hardware to crush any potential revolts, and that would put the country into the American military's crosshairs in such case.

Edited by luisedgarf on Jun 10th 2022 at 2:35:14 PM