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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#116701: Jan 21st 2022 at 12:27:13 PM

FighterZ Does give them the occasional awkward and oddly jovial conversation. There's a fun one of them shooting the breeze about Beerus showing up in the middle of their fight in Revival of F.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#116702: Jan 21st 2022 at 12:32:50 PM

Hey that reminds me, we're gonna get Return of Cooler spoiling Dende's kami-ship pretty soon, huh? Toei's original Denjiro. (One Piece fans understood that)

Yep, we're coming up fast on that. Cooler Returns releases in the span between episodes 130 and 131. And, fun fact, Kami Dende hadn't even happened in the manga yet. When Cooler Returns came out, in the manga, Imperfect Cell had just revealed himself for the first time and was explaining his identity to Piccolo.

It's possible that Toei gave Toriyama the idea to make Dende into Kami.

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MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#116703: Jan 21st 2022 at 12:41:59 PM

[up]I think it's more likely that Toriyama already planned for Dende to become God and informed Toei of such, but he misjudged how long it would take for him to get to that point.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#116704: Jan 21st 2022 at 12:44:06 PM

Or Toei misjudged how long it would take Toriyama to get to that plot-point.

  • Toriyama: "By the way, my plan for Kami fusing with Piccolo is to later make Dende the new Kami of Earth, so don't do any filler interfering with that plot point."

  • Toei: "PUT IT IN THE NEXT MOVIE!"

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#116705: Jan 21st 2022 at 12:44:17 PM

It might have been something he started thinking on depending on when he decided to have Piccolo and Kami merge back together.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116706: Jan 21st 2022 at 12:45:17 PM

I can imagine Toriyama got delayed what with all the demands to change the arc villain

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Azulmagia Since: Mar, 2021 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#116707: Jan 21st 2022 at 12:46:31 PM

For the person who asked, Vegeta learned Instant Transmission and an Anti-Fusion ability on Yardrat.

TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#116708: Jan 21st 2022 at 2:22:45 PM

     Episode 126 - Murderers Who Leave No Trace— Which Ones are the Jinzoningen!? / The Androids Appear 

Anime/Manga: We open with Gohan, Goku, and Piccolo en route to the rendezvous point. In that order. Piccolo is dressed in his typical attire. Goku is wearing a Kame-senryu dogi, but no longer has any insignia on it whatsoever; For some reason, he isn't even wearing his own 'Go' kanji anymore. Gohan is, of course, dressed in his Mazoku clothes.

Goku calls ahead to Gohan, urging him to slow down; At the pace he's going, he's going to drain his ki reserves before the fight even starts. Gohan apologizes and backs off.

Piccolo asks Goku for an estimation of their chances, but Goku has no idea. He hasn't even seen the Jinzoningen yet. Piccolo admits that he has a foreboding feeling about this upcoming fight. Goku suggests he should pull out if things go south; The Dragon Balls are linked to his survival, after all, so he needs to survive more than anyone.

Funimation cuts the part about Piccolo needing to leave if things go south. Instead, Funi Piccolo despair-spirals. He laments that there wasn't more time. He wishes he could have trained harder, gotten stronger, gotten faster.... Goku snaps him out of his panic attack by assuring him that he did as much as he possibly could have.

The group comes up on Krillin, also in transit towards the rendezvous. Krillin is dressed in his typical Kame-senryu dogi and is not in a good mood - Though he does take a moment to compliment Gohan for how big he's gotten. When pressed by Goku, he explains the obvious: He's feeling dismal because they're about to fight for their lives against murderous cyborgs, you goddamn Saiyan fight junkie.

The group reaches the island. To their surprise, it's a fairly large island with two major landmarks: A gigantic mountain along one side with a forest creeping out from its base and a sprawling city taking up a significant chunk of the island's center.

That's bad. Nobody anticipated a city. Gohan expresses to the others the importance of protecting these people. They need to lure the Jinzoningen away so that nobody gets hurt.

Krillin spots a pair of substantial ki signatures on the island's giant mountain. Figuring that's probably Yamcha and Tenshinhan, the group heads that way. As they come in for a landing, the group sees the two insignificant ki signatures that Krillin missed: Bulma and the infant son in her arms. Her plane is parked nearby.

Funi instead has Krillin respond to Gohan's suggestion of luring away the Androids. He points out that they need to find the Androids first. The group agrees to begin the search immediately, and then flies over to the mountain to meet Yamcha and the others.

Like Krillin, Yamcha is wearing his usual Kame-senryu dogi. Ten has upgraded from pants and a white undershirt he sheds to fight, to pants with a single fabric strap that reaches up and hooks over his left shoulder. (I have no idea what that's supposed to be.) Bulma's wearing white jeans and a red top cut short enough to bare her midriff, along with a tiny orange jacket too small to close, cut even shorter than the shirt. She's also updated her hairstyle: Straight with a neck-length cut.

Nobody cares about that, though. Why is she here?! Goku calls her an idiot and demands answers. He's the only one that takes issue with this, but that's because he wasn't there when she explained her motives with Mecha-Frieza. Bulma explains again for Goku's benefit: She wants to see the Jinzoningen. She'll leave once she's had a good look.

Next question: BABY. What?! Gohan optimistically assumes this means Bulma and Yamcha got married because he's a precious innocent child, but Yamcha disavows any involvement in this. He and Bulma broke up a long time ago.

Goku instantly pegs Trunks's father as Vegeta, astonishing Bulma who hasn't told a soul. Goku swears that he can see a resemblance, but Bulma presses him about the name. Stuck for an explanation, Goku wildly speculates that he might be psychic.

This is meant to be a joke. "LOL Goku's such a terrible liar." But he did read Krillin's mind on Namek so it's actually a plausible explanation.

Piccolo interrupts the socializing to rerail the conversation towards the task at hand: Where the hell is Vegeta? Bulma doesn't have an answer for that; They aren't living together, so she doesn't keep track of his whereabouts. However, she assures everyone that he'll be here. He's been training relentlessly for this day. He wouldn't miss it for the world.

Ten lets everyone know that Chiaotzu won't be coming. They trained together, but Chiaotzu wouldn't be able to keep up so Ten asked him to stay behind.

Now that all that's settled, Gohan asks Bulma for a time check, since she's wearing a watch. It's 9:30. Half an hour remains until the Jinzoningen arrive. Goku again tells Bulma to go home, but she reiterates that she isn't leaving until she gets to see them.

Anime Only: Meanwhile, in West City, Dr. Briefs enters Trunks's baby room with a new toy he's made. Unfortunately, Trunks is nowhere to be found. Briefs assumes that she's showing him off around the city. Oh, well. He'll be surprised when he comes home and sees this little gadget.

Dr. Briefs sits down to play with the gadget he built. It's a chunk of plastic with buttons on it. He presses a button on it to demonstrate, causing a giant inflatable pink balloon person to burst out in a puff of Capsule smoke. While he laughs at his own ingenuity, we zoom in on a clock sitting on the dresser: It's 10:15.

Anime/Manga: We cut back to the Dragon Team on the mountain overlooking this unexpected city. Krillin asks what became of Trunks's tail but gets no answer. Toei cuts Krillin's unanswered question and replaces it with Krillin trying to make a funny face to get a laugh out of the baby. Trunks laughs at his stupid face before he even does anything. (Krillin Owned Count +1)

Piccolo senses an inbound ki signature, but assures everyone it's not the Jinzoningen. He can feel no malicious intent in this person's ki. Gohan suggests it might be Vegeta, but Krillin shoots that down: Vegeta's full of malicious intent.

Yajirobe pulls up in a hover car and pops out. He's added a red scarf to his typical outfit. Goku asks if he's here to fight, but he doesn't even dignify that with a response. Instead, Bean Daddy pulls out a satchel of Senzu and passes it over. Gift from Karin-sama.

With that, Yajirobe gets back in his car. Goku asks again if he's fighting, but Yajirobe answers with a Hell No. Unlike these idiots, he has no desire to die today. He does not physically flip them off as he flies away, but the middle finger is implied.

After Yajirobe leaves, Ten raises a sticking point that's been growing on his mind. Something is wrong here. 10:00 AM came and went, and none of them has sensed any inkling of the Jinzoningen.

Yamcha suggests that Future Kid was full of shit. It was all a prank or something. They've been standing around here like morons hoping to sense something, but if the Jinzoningen are so powerful, they'd be towering beacons of ki that could be sensed anywhere on the planet. There are no colossal ki signatures anywhere, so this whole thing must be fake.

As if on cue, an explosion rocks Yajirobe's car and sends the smoldering wreck hurtling down towards the island below. Piccolo spots two tiny figures in the sky where the blast occured. They're so far away that they're nearly imperceptible, but they're there. The figures descend into the city, at which point everyone loses sight of them.

So. New problem. Nobody sensed even the slightest inkling of ki coming from those two. What's going on here? It's well-educated Gohan who figures out the answer: It's because they're Jinzoningen. A machine doesn't have ki, so there is no ki signature to detect. Chapter 143 ends here.

New plan: Since the Jinzoningen don't have detectable ki signatures, the team will have to search for them visually. They'll spread out, search the city, but avoid any direct confrontation without the rest of the group as backup. Except Gohan; Goku assigns him to go check on Yajirobe. He's alive but he could need help.

Due to a continuity error, the Senzu bag vanished from Goku's hands after Yajirobe's car exploded. No one else took it; It simply stopped existing. A couple chapters from here, Toriyama will realize that he accidentally erased the Senzu when Yamcha needs one. To fix that, Goku will say that he left the Senzu up on the mountain and ask Krillin to fly Yamcha up there.

So. Apparently Goku dropped the bag out of surprise and then forgot it existed until Yamcha was impaled. Stupid Super Goku.

Toei patches this here by having Goku toss it to Bulma, asking her to hold onto it while they go down to find the Jinzoningen. Which is an awful plan, but at least it provides a better explanation for what happened to the bag than "Goku dropped it and then forgot it was there because he's dumb." Sometimes, you have to work around the plot holes.

Everyone but Gohan and Bulma flies down into the city. Gohan flies the opposite direction to find Yajirobe, even though Yajirobe's car exploded above the city. (This is why nobody ever trusts you with solo responsibilities, Gohan.)

Goku lands on a rooftop and looks down at the people wandering around below. He complains that they should have asked Trunks for a photo of the guys they're after. (Would have solved more problems than one, in fact.)

Krillin lands directly in front of some guy with a hoverboard, freaking out the rando with his power of Bukujutsu. He asks the man if he's seen anybody suspicious. The man responds by pointing at Krillin and saying he's suspicious.

Ten and Piccolo search the city wordlessly. Gohan pulls Yajirobe out of the ocean. Yamcha complains that the Jinzoningen might not even still be in the city.

We cut to an old man and a chinese doll walking the streets of the city, each with a Red Ribbon insignia on their headwear clearly identifying them as the Jinzoningen. A middle-aged man calls out to them, asking if they saw the skycar explode earlier. 19 approaches the man and kills him with a headbutt. Another man standing next to him watches this happen, but before he can do anything, 19 kills him with a punch.

20 remains standing in the street, watching the brutality until he hears a honking noise in front of him. He's blocking the road, drawing ire from a salaryman who honks his horn and yells at him to move. 20 punches through the hood of the car and destroys its engine. Then he walks around to the driver's side window and pulls the man out by his throat.

The two panels of this man's death are gruesome. His eyes bulge out of his sockets due to 20's vice grip. In the second panel, 20 crushes his entire neck like a sheet of paper, tearing it from its bloody root between his shoulders. It's easily one of the goriest things Toriyama's ever drawn.

Toei did not animate this gruesome death. Their 20 merely chokes the life out of him.

A nearby woman screams, alerting Yamcha to the Jinzoningen. He races over to investigate. 20 and 19 detect his approach immediately; Their scanners indicate a being whose energy far exceeds all conceivable human parameters. 20 considers that his scanners may be malfunctioning, but 19 confirms it. A reading like this can only be Son Goku.

Yamcha arrives and finds the three bodies that the Jinzoningen left behind. He asks the nearby witnesses what happened here and they inform him of the two strange men. Unfortunately, the men vanished. Yamcha decides it would be best to call in the rest of the group.

Above him, 19 and 20 validate 19's suspicions. Toei treats us to a datasheet as 19 scans him:

  • Name: Yamucha
  • Address: NBI 8250012B
  • Height: 183 cm (~6'00")
  • Weight: 068 kg (~149.9 lbs)
  • Special Ability: Rouga Whowhoken (A.K.A. Rogafufuken, known in the dub as Wolf Fang Fist)
  • Opinion: Stratos no Plamodel saihansare te ureshii. ("I'm happy Stratos plastic models are back on sale." It's certainly an opinion!)

19 declares a 96% probability that this is Yamcha. Not the target, but 20 figures that they can drain some energy from him. They descend behind Yamcha. He turns around, spotting them, and asks if they saw where the killers got off to. But then his eyes fall on the Red Ribbon insignias. 20 confirms that they are, in fact, the killers.

Yamcha leaps back from them and moves into his fighting stance. He calls out for the rest of the group, but 20 clasps his left hand over Yamcha's mouth. 20 hoists him into the air.

Anime Only: An oil tanker drives up. Spotting 20 and Yamcha in the road, the driver swerves and crashes into a gas station. Both the gas station and tanker explode, revealing the Jinzoningen's location to everyone else.

Anime/Manga: Yamcha wriggles in 20's grip, but can do nothing to free himself. He feels his energy fading. Then 20 stabs his hand through Yamcha's chest. Toriyama depicts this as a sudden motion. Yamcha's eyes shoot open and we hear the sound of flesh torn, then zoom out to see 20's hand sticking out of his back.

Toei goes for a more horrific version. 20 forces his hand through Yamcha slowly, pushing through his innards and out the back over the course of several seconds. Either way, Yamcha is gruesomely impaled. So long, old friend. Chapter 144 ends here.

In this episode: The universe conspires to disprove everything Yamcha ever says. "The Androids aren't even real." Yajirobe's car blows up. "Okay, they are real, but they definitely left already." Promptly murdered by 20. Next week, the blood test will come back and it turns out Trunks is Yamcha's kid after all.

It's weird that Trunks's directions were "An island 9 km southwest of South City" when there's a bustling metropolis on the island. You'd think he could just tell them which city to go to, but he doesn't. The nearest geographic landmark he can think of to this heavily populated island is another city 9 km away.

That has chilling implications for the residents of this place. This city must have been utterly wiped off the map during the original Jinzoningen skirmish, such that by the time Trunks left the future, nobody even remembers it was ever there. The Dragon Team roams this city running into various folks who were all fated to die today. This is haunting.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116709: Jan 21st 2022 at 2:37:01 PM

Man, Trunks is just not a reliable messenger

He gives the wrong android designations, doesn’t describe them, doesn’t even mention they have no ki to sense

I won’t blame him for the island thing, although you’d think Future Bulma could have told him to tell the past people the more specific location

(Or the past people to actually do any reconnaissance)

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CheapMarzipan A Low Cost Confection Since: Dec, 2020 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
A Low Cost Confection
#116710: Jan 21st 2022 at 2:45:19 PM

I think this was the first uncensored episode of Dragon Ball I saw (IIRC I saw it on Toonami’s Midnight Run instead of it’s daytime programming). Android 20 driving his hand through Yamcha’s chest freaked me out as a kid.

Edited by CheapMarzipan on Jan 21st 2022 at 4:49:36 AM

TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#116711: Jan 21st 2022 at 2:45:55 PM

Three years! They had three years for somebody to fly out to this island and find a good spot for the fight to go down. Three motherfucking years. And not one person ever came here and went, "Oh, shit, there's a city on this island."

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Shlugo_the_great Since: Sep, 2009
#116712: Jan 21st 2022 at 2:51:59 PM

Goku instantly pegs Trunks's father as Vegeta, astonishing Bulma who hasn't told a soul. Goku swears that he can see a resemblance, but Bulma presses him about the name. Stuck for an explanation, Goku wildly speculates that he might be psychic.

This is meant to be a joke. "LOL Goku's such a terrible liar." But he did read Krillin's mind on Namek so it's actually a plausible explanation.

Bulma:"How did you know Trunks name?"

Goku:"Uhhh... I can... read minds?"

Bulma:"No you can't!"

Krillin:"Actually he can."

Bulms:"Seriously? Oh, ok then."

diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#116713: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:07:41 PM

Thus we arrive at Yamcha's final defeat. A cruel, but not unexpected, loss.

...And what Android 20 does to him is pretty brutal, too.

randomness4 Snow Ghost from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Snow Ghost
#116714: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:09:54 PM

[up][up][up]A bit of fridge logic is at play here...

Outside of the characters simply not caring, there's no reason to think the androids wouldn't first show up in a populated area.

Where would they be otherwise?

Edited by randomness4 on Jan 21st 2022 at 6:11:05 AM

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#116715: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:15:17 PM

I always wondered why Gero attacked this city, specifically. 17 and 18 attacked it in the future timeline, so whatever Trunks or Cell changed that caused Gero to shelve the twins and perform the attack himself didn't change the day, time, or location of his attack.

My headcanon is that this is Gero's hometown, and he always hated this place. The time and date correspond to the anniversary of the event that caused him to hate this place, maybe he was bullied really badly in high school on this day.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 21st 2022 at 4:15:56 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#116716: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:20:15 PM

Bulma:"How did you know Trunks name?"

Goku:"Uhhh... I can... read minds?"

Bulma:"No you can't!"

Krillin:"Actually he can."

Bulms:"Seriously? Oh, ok then."

Haha. I remember reading a humor fanfic once with a major punchline about the fact that Goku can read minds, but never actually remembers he can do it.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#116717: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:21:24 PM

wild mass guessWhile scavenging around Gero's lab, Krillin and Trunks would eventually find Gero's research notes. There, they learn that Dr. Gero did extensive research in his target. He ultimately discovered that this city was the hometown of Son Goku. It's where he grew up. Where he went to school. Where he used to skateboard with his friends. Where he fell in love with his very first girlfriend before college.

He attacked this city first to deliver a crippling emotional blow to Goku, demoralizing him by burning his beloved childhood memories to the ground. However, due to a tragic twist of fate, Goku had never actually heard of this place before. In actuality, Gero had spent all that time plotting his revenge against some poor unlucky sap by the name of Mago Gosora.wild mass guess

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 21st 2022 at 3:22:28 AM

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#116719: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:25:23 PM

Boy, it would have been nice if each of them had carried a Senzu bean on them huh?

Like, there's no guarantee that Yamcha would have been able to use it in his condition, but still.

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Azulmagia Since: Mar, 2021 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#116721: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:30:59 PM

Of course, "why did Gero attack this island, specifically" is a Watsonian question asked with future knowledge that 17 and 18 attacked this island in the original timeline and Trunks/Cell changed the future.

The Doylist answer is "Trunks didn't change the future, the Androids arrived at this island because this was the island Trunks said Androids 19 and 20 would attack, and I, Akira Toriyama, have not yet been told to change which Androids are the main threat in this arc".

randomness4 Snow Ghost from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Snow Ghost
#116722: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:34:51 PM

Well...

When you say why did the androids attack this place, you're going with "why did they attack this place specifically?"

When randomness says where else would the androids be found other than populated places, it's going with where else would androids be found that the characters would logically be able to find them.

There's answers to these questions are obvious out of universe.

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fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#116723: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:49:59 PM

Why this populated place, though? What makes this place good enough as the initial rampage?

Especially since they're supposed to be hunting for Goku. What was the plan here? Why a rampage in a random city at all? He knows where Goku lives!

Edited by fredhot16 on Jan 21st 2022 at 4:16:41 AM

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116724: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:52:41 PM

Implant a senzu in a false tooth like a reverse suicide capsule

Bite down if ass kicked

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#116725: Jan 21st 2022 at 3:55:18 PM

....I forgot about the knows where Goku lives thing.

While their data would prove to be quite incomplete due to everything on Namek, it was pretty comprehensive.

I have two guesses, and both are that they didn't attack the island at random:

1) For reasons unknown, the Z Warriors (minus Goku of course) happened to be gathered on that island for some reason, and The Androids attacked there.

2) More likely, 19 and 20 just chose that place at random as a way to field test their abilities. Gero is a scientist, so he may have wanted to see how they performed at something as simple as genociding an entire island of people.

These are just guesses though.

[up]Edit: Huh. They've all lost teeth at some point I'd imagine. Bulma could probably make that happen.

Then again, the Senzu would also heal the damaged tooth as well, so they'd have to knock out teeth themselves so they could keep doing it.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jan 21st 2022 at 3:56:27 AM

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