Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Yeah, I know, but I think throw myself at the other dude and knock them out has surpassed biting as Goku's true unique and signature technique.
Like, he's certainly doing the former more than the latter.
I suppose you could say biting people is Adult Goku's signature, while throw myself at dudes is Kid Goku's signature.
Edit: Maybe I should have made it more clear I was joking. My bad for not using a Joking Mode pothole.
Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 21st 2021 at 10:52:59 AM
One Strip! One Strip!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Goku stops using himself as a bullet once he grows up. I think the last appearance of the "Goku slams Goku into an opponent" technique is when he defeats Piccolo Jr.
Anime Only: Rain begins pouring down over the scene of Goku and Piccolo's fight while Piccolo continues wailing on Goku. Goku struggles to his feet and it abruptly stops raining.
Anime/Manga: Piccolo channels his tremendous power and a malevolent aura rises from his body. Toei has Goku enter a standing meditation as he prepares to evade the incoming attack. Piccolo fires an unnamed beam of ki from his left hand, but Goku leaps into the air to escape. However, Piccolo fires a second beam from his right straight up into Goku.
The attack hits Goku dead-on. Goku falls lifeless to the ground. In a very cool bit of audio, Toei gives us the sound of Goku's heartbeat coming to a stop when the attack hits him. Piccolo palms Goku's chest and confirms that his heart has stopped beating. Goku is dead. Victorious, Piccolo takes the 1-Star Ball and flies back up to the airship.
With that ugly business out of the way, the next step is to go find those other guys collecting the Dragon Balls. Pilaf, supremely concerned at this point, clarifies with Piano that Piccolo will be even stronger after his youth is restored. Piano assures Pilaf that what he just saw is paltry compared to the true strength of Piccolo-Daimao's youth. (How does Piano know? He wasn't there for the good old days!)
Once Piccolo leaves, Yajirobe comes out of hiding. Lamenting Goku's death, Yajirobe decides to bury him because he doesn't look appetizing. But Goku's heart starts beating again! Fuck you, that's how.
Yajirobe carries Goku over to a nearby river so that he can drink. Goku acknowledges that Piccolo is so far beyond him it's not even funny. He asks Yajirobe to carry him to Karin's Tower, since his body's too torn up to make the journey himself. Yajirobe agrees, but only on the grounds that Goku provide him a lot of food.
Far away, the Dragon Team uncovers the fifth Dragon Ball in a grassy meadow. The Muten-Roshi checks the Radar; the last two Dragon Balls are headed their way with great speed! Piccolo-Daimao is coming. Chapter 144 ends here.
Up in the airship, Pilaf notices that the five Dragon Balls are headed their way. That's just great. Piccolo decides to let them come. These poor bastards have no way of knowing that the Balls they're pursuing are with Piccolo-Daimao of all people! This will be like taking candy from a baby.
Meanwhile, in the plane, the Muten-Roshi notices the same once more runs the plan by Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu. If they fight Piccolo, they die. Full stop. No question. They need to find an opening, steal his Dragon Balls, and then get away and summon Shenron. Shenron will then grant their wish to erase Piccolo and the rest of his demon kind from the world. Ten complies, but he's still not happy about it.
Cut to Yajirobe driving Goku out to the Sacred Land in a stolen car. Yajirobe explains Piccolo to Goku: He's a terrible monster who tried to conquer the world long ago. Then, one day, some martial artist defeated him... somehow. Yajirobe doesn't know the details; it's just a story he heard years ago.
Yajirobe then asks what the deal with gathering the seven Balls is, again? Toei's Goku explained it thoroughly before, but Toriyama's Goku was interrupted by Tambourine before he could get to the nitty-gritty. Yajirobe's skeptical of Goku's explanation, but he does wonder what sort of wish a guy as powerful as Piccolo could possibly have. Answer Cut to Piccolo gloating that eternal youth is within his grasp.
Ten sets the plane down in a rocky meadow. Roshi punches a hole in the dirt and instructs Chiaotzu to bury the Dragon Balls there. Chiaotzu rolls a Natural 20 on his concealment check, and is thus able to put the grass back on top! ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Roshi explains the plan: Chiaotzu will hide under a nearby outcrop. While Piccolo searches for the buried Dragon Balls, Ten and Roshi will steal his Balls. They'll throw the Balls to Chiaotzu, then Chiaotzu will combine them with the buried Balls and summon Shenron.
(How, exactly, Chiaotzu is supposed to unearth the buried Dragon Balls without revealing himself to Piccolo is not covered by the plan. In fact, Funimation's version of the plan features Chiaotzu burying the two Balls with the other five.)
The Dragon Team moves into positions just before the airship arrives. Piccolo smells an ambush.
As the airship moves in overhead, Ten and Roshi deduce that Piccolo will leave the Dragon Balls up there. They discuss trying to sneak aboard while he's distracted. But Piccolo thinks better and decides to hold onto the Dragon Balls himself. Standing against the railing, visible to his enemies, Piccolo swallows the Balls. The plan is already foiled; Now the Dragon Team will have no choice but to defeat him in combat.
Tenshinhan, who's been waiting for this opportunity, throws off his shirt. But the Muten-Roshi warns him to stay back; Roshi will deal with this. He assures Ten not to worry; after all, Roshi has drunk the Immortality Water. He can't die.
Ten angrily refuses to stay behind, but Roshi doses him with knock-out gas. (Why he carries knock-out gas on him is a question best left unanswered.)
Roshi drags Ten deeper into the outcrop and confesses that he lied about the Immortality Water. He is absolutely mortal. Goku is dead and if the Muten-Roshi dies as well, then Tenshinhan will be the Earth's best hope against Piccolo-Daimao. Ten must survive so that he can go into hiding and train until he's ready. Roshi then instructs Chiaotzu to forget the plan; just conceal himself, live through this, and say goodbye to everyone Roshi loved for him.
With that business taken care of, the Muten-Roshi marches out into the open to meet his fate. He challenges Piccolo-Daimao to come down and face him. Piccolo, of course, complies; he's even a little impressed that Roshi knew it was him! To be continued (with literally one page left in the chapter!)
Oh man, this is the most straightforward adaptation we've had in a while. Toei added very little to this episode. The only thing that comes to mind is the downpour at the beginning. That was weird. I thought it'd rain through Goku's whole death sequence and I was like, "Yeah, this is a cool bit of ambience. Let's do this." But then they cut the rain as soon as the manga picked back up.
Fun fact: It's very ambiguous as to whether the elixir that Roshi lies about here is the same elixir that Turtle confronted him about alllllll the way back in the Frypan Mountain chapters/episodes.
Roshi agreed to put out the fires on Frypan Mountain in exchange for seeing Bulma's tits. When Turtle confronted him, he told Turtle to let a "dying old man" have his fun. Turtle pointed out that Roshi drank the Elixir of Immortality, so he's not dying any time soon. Here, Roshi brings up the Elixir again as a means of claiming that Piccolo can't kill him; however, after gassing Tenshinhan, Roshi admits that the Elixir was a lie.
What's interesting, though, is that the two Elixirs might not be the same Elixir. Toriyama uses different words for them. In the Frypan Mountain chapter, it's furofushi no kusuri or "medicine of immortality", while in the Piccolo arc, it's furofushi no mizu or "water of immortality"; the latter is the one that Roshi lied about, and he explicitly says that it's fake. He made it up. There is no such thing as furofushi no mizu. (But there may still be furofushi no kusuri? Or they might be the same thing.)
The Viz manga refers to both the Medicine and Water of Immortality by the same terminology: Elixir of Immortality. But they also make his deception more vague. He says only that he lied about the Elixir, but does not explain what he lied about.
- He did not drink the Elixir.
- The Elixir does not prevent him from dying by external causes.
Either interpretation is valid.
Toei's version of the Frypan scene has Turtle simply refer to "a potion that grants eternal life", while Funimation has Turtle call it "The Fountain of Youth"; a reference that may be more familiar to Americans than an alchemical legend from East Asia. Then, in the Piccolo scene, Toei's Roshi lies about having drank Furofushi water, while Funimation's Roshi took a "life-sustaining potion". The former may be the potion that grants eternal life, but the latter is clearly something very different from the Fountain of Youth.
Personally, I think the two Elixirs are supposed to be the same. It's a question of narrative purpose. Why even have Roshi claim to have drank an Immortality Elixir and then reveal that he lied one page later, when the person he's talking to doesn't even fall for the lie? I think the answer is that Toriyama remembered that he established Roshi as immortal earlier, and introduced the lie specifically so that he could retcon Roshi into being mortal. Which is a purpose only served if they're the same Elixir.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 21st 2021 at 12:11:26 PM
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
A Low Cost Confection
IMO, King Piccolo is the smartest DB villain.
The moment he returns, he has his minions assassinate anyone who might be able to challenge him. He kills Goku, then actually checks to make sure he’s dead (neatly averting the same mistake Taopaipai and Tambourine made). He makes his wish, then he KILLS THE DRAGON to ensure that no one can use the Dragon Balls against him.
Which makes the asspulls Goku gets in this arc more egregious. Goku’s heart just…starts beating again…somehow. Then it turns out that Karin really DID have magic water all along.
Like Toriyama knew he couldn’t have his villains keep making the same mistakes and have the series maintain a sense of threat, but couldn’t figure out clever ways to have his main character pull through.
Crazy DB Marron Development Lady
A lot of mysteriously long-living characters in Dragon Ball. Kami and Piccolo would later have the excuse of exobiology, but Korin and Popo are Earthlings… right?
My headcanon is that Popo used to be human until Korin (who was not) fed him something. So somebody is sure to come pop that balloon for me.
Finally posted DB Scarlet Mirror: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13689952930A49781400&page=97#2423
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Yeah, Piccolo is supremely clever in this arc. Unfortunately, Toriyama got lazy with Goku and just... wrote Taopaipai again.
- Goku is enraged by the the death of someone who tried to help him.
- Goku furiously attacks a much stronger foe.
- Stronger foe kills Goku, but he miraculously survives.
- Goku ascends Karin Tower to find the strength to defeat his opponent.
- PLOT TWIST: There really WASN'T/WAS a Magic Water all along!
- Goku's power grows immensely and he beats the villain's ass on the rematch.
It's just that this time, the death that enrages Goku is stronger for being one of his actual friends instead of some guy he just met, while the miraculous survival is weaker for being totally inexplicable.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 21st 2021 at 12:44:19 PM
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
He really is.
Just that stunt where he eats the Dragonball alone is a sign of how smart he is, which is funny, since being smart in DB often doesn't help you when Goku decides to bulldoze over you.
Like, Pilaf put the ball in a box that shielded it from the Dragon Radar, but Goku found them anyway (even if because he got the help of an oracle). He also learned Goku's weakness and planned to capitalize on it....only for Goku to have no tail to grab.
Meanwhile, when King Piccolo does the smart thing, it mostly works out for him...except with Goku, where despite checking to see if he's dead, the kid just comes back to life out of nowhere.
Of course, nothing will top him murdering the Dragon, not only due to how entirely out of nowhere it was since even after watching Z first like so many, it never even dawn on me that such a thing was possible, but also because the Dragon is the one other thing in the world that could stop him.
One Strip! One Strip!
Roshi and Korin are supposed to be sages that achieved immortality and have funky supernatural powers. That's why Roshi can do stuff like read minds.
Concern intensifies
Snow Ghost
Either is valid
But it doesn't really matter because he's telling Ten this, a person who wasn't there when that originally came up
So as far as Ten is concerned, Roshi said he was immortal and then immediately revealed he lied about it
YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Ten's supposed to be unconscious when Roshi reveals he lied about it; he's literally only explaining the lie for the audience's benefit.
Ten's actually hanging on by sheer force of will, but Roshi doesn't know that.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 21st 2021 at 1:55:37 AM
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Snow Ghost
It just paralyzed him basically
Because he never actually passes out from the gas
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
He could've just had an inner monologue
The One with Knowledge of Things
Manga has speech bubbles during Turtle Hermit's explanation.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Ah, okay.
Edited by jouXIII on Oct 21st 2021 at 12:08:47 PM
I assure you, I'm a completely trustworthy person.
Snow Ghost
I know
YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.
A Low Cost Confection
@ Sailor11sedna IIRC Supplementary materials state that Popo was born in the Otherworld and was sent to Earth to be the attendant of Earth’s Kami.
On that note, does anyone know what Kami’s job responsibilities actually are?
Edited by CheapMarzipan on Oct 21st 2021 at 6:46:02 AM
Funny but not helpful
If he’s anything like Shin: to exist
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Normally its just kinda watch. Maybe preform a miracle or two every so often. Its not supposed to be some random martial artists and their families keep going to your house and blowing up your cool basement
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Toriyama up there spoiling the Muten-Roshi's plan (since the title came directly from chapter 146). Also, what do you mean, "Last Mafuba"? This is his fucking first Mafuba. You make it sound like a signature technique he's broken out a bunch of times over the course of his life! "Last Kamehameha" would make sense, but not "Last Mafuba".
Viz gets it. They just called this chapter, "The Mafu-Ba".
Anime Only: We open on Kame House, where everyone thinks Oolong is crazy. But he swears all seven Dragon Balls are in one location. A secondary Radar that Bulma built into the TV for some reason shows only five Balls together, but Oolong insists that he saw the other two there as well! But then they just vanished.
Bulma suggests that they could have fallen off the Radar if someone swallowed them. But. Why would anyone do that? Lunch points out that if the Balls are together, then someone's about to summon Shenron. So, who is it? The Muten-Roshi or Piccolo-Daimao? After all, for this to happen, they'd have to be in the same spot.
Bulma, suddenly realizing the meaning of Lunch's words, races over to the ham radio and tries to contact Roshi, Ten, and Chiaotzu. There's no response. What could be happening out there?
Anime/Manga: The Muten-Roshi points to where the Dragon Balls are buried and lays down the terms of engagement: if Piccolo defeats Roshi, then he can dig up the Balls and take them. Piccolo is amused by these terms. Meanwhile, Tenshinhan struggles to remain conscious, resisting the knock-out drug by sheer force of will. Chapter 145 ends here.
Piccolo is entertained by Roshi's boldness, but he figures it makes sense in a way. After all, the martial artists of this era only know him by reputation. However, Roshi corrects him: they've actually met before.
Anime Only: Roshi goes on to explain the plan to have Shenron kill Piccolo; Piccolo regurgitates his two Dragon Balls and offers to let Roshi try and take them. Roshi refuses to budge, simply staring down Piccolo in silence. When it becomes clear that Roshi won't take the bait, Piccolo swallows the Dragon Balls again.
Piccolo blasts Roshi across the field. Roshi picks himself back up and resumes staring intensely. Piccolo questions why Roshi would even bother trying to stand against him when he's so weak. Roshi finally speaks, replying that he can't enjoy his time watching porn with someone like Piccolo around!
This answers offends Piccolo, who believes Roshi is messing with him. (No, I'm pretty sure that was a truthful statement.) He blasts Roshi back into one of the outcrops, destroying it, and then announces the intention to beat Roshi to death slowly. But Roshi picks himself out of the rubble and resumes his intense staring.
Piccolo destroys the rubble with eye lasers and still, Roshi doesn't budge. More silence, more intense staring. Piccolo fires more eye lasers directly over Roshi's shoulders and still, he doesn't budge.
Roshi explains that he doesn't want to fight. He recognizes that even with all of his skills, trying to resist Piccolo would be futile. However, he does know of a way to imprison Piccolo. He reminds Piccolo of what he said earlier: this isn't the first time they've met.
Anime/Manga: In fact, Roshi explains, he and his master fought Piccolo a long time ago. Piccolo might know the guy. His name was Mutaito!!!
Anime Only: Goku and Yajirobe are still a long way from Karin Tower, but Goku's condition is worsening. His body is still weak and now he's sweating profusely; It's okay, though, because Karin can help him! Yajirobe mistakes Karin for the name of Goku's physician, but Goku corrects him; Karin is, in fact, a cat.
Anime/Manga: Piccolo panics upon hearing Mutaito's name. Roshi confirms his fears, casting out a capsule that pops into an electric rice cooker! Piccolo bolts into the sky, trying to flee, but it's too late. The Muten-Roshi captures him in the Mafuba/Evil Containment Wave! The Mafuba's spiral pulls Piccolo back down. Under the Muten-Roshi's guidance, the technique traps Piccolo within its grasp and then slams him down next to the rice cooker.
The Mafuba was successful, but the Muten-Roshi's aim was off. Piccolo gasps for breath, recovering from his terrifying experience. Roshi chastises himself for screwing up this one chance. With his last words, the Muten-Roshi swears that some day, somebody will stand up to Piccolo and defeat him. And then he collapses; the Mafuba's toll on his body is too great. The Muten-Roshi hits the ground and passes away.
Far away, Goku suddenly jerks up in his seat. He can't place what it is but he just sensed something. Something terrible just happened.
Piccolo rises to his feet and laughs with relief. The old man is dead! He knew the Mafuba, he was the true threat that Piccolo feared, but the Mafuba failed and now he's dead! Piccolo's takeaway from this is that he doesn't need to live in fear any longer; there's no one left who can possibly use the technique against him, and so he is once more unstoppable! (I mean, multiple people could know the technique. That's like saying, "Now that Goku is dead, no one can ever use a Kamehameha against me again!")
Better yet, Piccolo won. So, per the terms of engagement established earlier, the five buried Dragon Balls are all his. That makes seven! Time to summon Shenron and reclaim his youth. Chapter 146 ends here.
Piccolo lays out the seven Dragon Balls and invokes Shenron. They sky is blanketed in familiar black clouds.
Anime Only: The black sky is visible to Yajirobe and Goku too. Yajirobe recalls seeing a weird weather phenomenon like this three years ago too. But Goku knows: Piccolo-Daimao has summoned Shenron.
Anime/Manga: The Pilaf Gang watch eagerly from above with Piano. Tenshinhan also watches anxiously from his drugged paralysis. Ten recognizes the threat here: if Piccolo regains his youth, he'll be more powerful than ever. Something has to be done.
Shenron rises from the Dragon Balls, filling the sky with his colossal form. To be continued.
That opening scene at Kame House is a surprisingly good continuity catch on Toei's part. Back when the Dragon Team had to go to Uranai Baba's palace, they discussed how a Dragon Ball could vanish from the Radar like this. Bulma speculated then that something might have swallowed it; if the Ball was fully encased in organic matter, it would block the Ball's signal.
It's an easy detail to overlook because it didn't turn out to be the problem; rather, the seventh Ball was in a special box that Pilaf made to achieve the same effect. But Toei makes a great point here: by the same logic, those two Balls that Piccolo just ate would fall off the Dragon Radar, making it appear as if only five Dragon Balls were assembled in this location.
Nice catch.
Man, what was up with Roshi's staring contest? Toei literally interrupted him mid-speech to have him just stare silently at Piccolo while tanking attacks for four minutes! Why would he do that? Piccolo is powerful enough to kill him swiftly, and Roshi just stands there and lets Piccolo beat him up.
That was so stupid.
But the car scene with Yajirobe mistaking Karin for Goku's doctor cracked me up. "Karin's a cat!" and then no further context provided to poor, confused Yajirobe.
EDIT: You know, it truly is a shame that we lost Krillin. If only Tambourine had killed Yamcha or Tenshinhan instead.
- Roshi: He ate the Dragon Balls!
- Chiaotzu: What do we do now?!
- Krillin: No, no, this can work. Quick, Chiaotzu, dig those Dragon Balls back up.
- Roshi: What are you doing?
- Chiaotzu: (levitates the Balls out) Okay, I've got them. Now what?
- Krillin: When I give you the signal, chuck them as hard as you can at Piccolo's face. (marches out) Piccolo! Come down here and face me!
- Roshi: Are you out of your mind?! It should be me out there!
- Piccolo: Another child so eager to die? (descends) The last one was barely even a challenge for me. What makes you think you'll fare any differently?
- Krillin: Oh, I won't. You would slaughter me in an instant.
- Piccolo: Then what is this? A surrender?
- Krillin: Oh, of course! I would never dream of trying to oppose the great Piccolo-Daimao. In fact, I've collected all these just for you. Now!
- Chiatzo: (lobs the Dragon Balls straight into Piccolo)
- Piccolo: What the—
- Krillin: RISE, SHENRON, AND GRANT MY WISH!!!
- Shenron: (explodes out of Piccolo's gut, tearing him in half and killing him instantly)
- Roshi: That was brilliant!
- Krillin: I mean, the plan was for Shenron to kill him, right? This way, we get to have our wish too!
Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 21st 2021 at 5:28:17 AM
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
....would that have worked?
Like, if Toriyama thought of it, I can picture him not doing it because that's not how he wants the story to go, because he's like that.
One Strip! One Strip!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Oh, no, Toriyama would never have let the story end like that. But it's funny to think about.
I'm putting it with my joke AU, "Bulma Defeats the Saiyans."
- Bulma: Shenron, there are two Saiyans headed towards our planet. They mean to kill us all. I wish for you to kill them first.
- Shenron: That wish is beyond my power. I cannot influence a person whose power is greater than my creator's without their consent.
- Bulma: That's okay. Shenron, I wish for you to teleport their pods into the sun.
- Shenron: That is still beyond my power. As long as the Saiyans are stronger than my creator, I cannot move them from their current positions in the universe.
- Bulma: Shenron. I wish for you to teleport only the pods.
- Shenron: ...Your wish is granted!
Somewhere in the depths of the cosmos, Nappa and Vegeta awaken to find themselves suffocating to death in the merciless vacuum of space. The Earth is saved and our heroes live happily ever after.
Until the Androids activate to kill them all.
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Funny but not helpful
Summoning a dragon out of someone who ate dragon balls is something I think from the first dragon ball movie
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Yeah. Though that movie fudged the rules (they were able to detect the balls inside the monster, even though we just discussed that if a monster swallow them, they wouldn't show up on the radar.
Not sure if the writers ignored that, made the movie before that rule became a thing or something else however.
One Strip! One Strip!
yeah that mafuba was only roshi's first one. then he did it a few more times in super, to teach goku, and then in the top
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Well, up until he started busting it out again during the Tournament in Super, that was both his first and last Mafuba, so the title technically wasn't a lie at the time.
One Strip! One Strip!
Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 21st 2021 at 10:49:11 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.