Manga/Dragon Ball

Fury is the key to unlocking the Super Saiyan though.

It was fury, righteous fury that allowed him to surpass Frieza as well as that one time he mauled both Black & Future Zamasu for a bit.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 9th 2019 at 12:07:00 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I was always disappointed in the anime that even furious Goku ultimately didn't do much against the Zamasus

Goku actually did the most damage to Fused Zamasu.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

More damage than Trunks cutting him in half?

Cause that was a lot of damage.

One Strip! One Strip!

Gonna need some Flex Seal for that.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

And Trunks went for the groin first, that was one nasty way to go.

Wake me up at your own risk.

Not that the asshole didn't deserve it.

Yeah Goku made him go gooey.

Goku was too lazy to wrap things up you mean?

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jul 9th 2019 at 4:39:16 AM

One Strip! One Strip!

Well he did spent himself near completely.

He couldn't even move his arms at that point.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I know the Future Trunks arc had some issues, anime and manga, but regardless of what anyone says, I like that Trunks got a new form and attack.

For the love of Webster's I don't know why they translated it as "Super Saiyan Anger" though. "Ikari" works because it's a pun. That is where they should have taken liberties, got creative. I'd have gone with "Super Saiyan God's Wrath" aka "Super Saiyan Squared", like how we had Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan aka Super Saiyan Blue. It keeps the long title with #2 abbreviation theme going...okay getting too creative risks a Dub Induced Plothole(such as the "Ultimate" level in Digimon), I suppose a super saiyan god's wrath could end up being a Broly form in hindsight, but that's no excuse for going the direct route when the direct translation is in fact lost.

Edited by IndirectActiveTransport on Jul 9th 2019 at 10:09:11 AM

That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes

Oh believe you, I get it. Despite being the biggest asspull in the history of asspulls, I still rather like the Spirit Sword (or as it is officially and more lamely known, the Sword of Hope).

The concept of the Spirit Bomb has always been cool, but it was totally abandoned until Toriyama opted to dust it off at the end of the Buu saga (all for the sake of excluding Gohan). Seeing Trunks bust it out despite how impossible that should have been and adapt it to his own style was strange but almost welcome sight.

Both weapons and the Spirit Bomb got the short end of the stick in DB, so seeing them combined into something we've never seen before (and from someone besides Goku at that) just barely ties with my frustration at the fact that there's no way for him to even learn it.

And you have to wonder why he didn't? We've talked about why King Kai seems MIA in Trunks future (with the only explanation being he's not bothering to look anymore), but the least Toriyama could have done was have Goku pay him a visit in heaven and ask him to keep an eye on things, especially once the other Z fighters started piling in. That could've been an excuse for him to find a way to bring Trunks to his planet (since we know it's possible for living beings to get there). Boom, suddenly, Trunks learns the spirit bomb.

Or have the Supreme Kai take him there for another potential weapon against Babidi. Unfortunately, I assume they went off Toriyama's notes and nothing was mentioned of King Kai there (though to be fair, by the time the arc started, Black had likely killed him) so that's what we got.

One Strip! One Strip!

The technique that killed the final villain got the short end of the stick? What?

i think he means in terms of results up until then

the spirit bomb literally only killed buu. every other time it ended up being an inconvenience.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae

Thats simply false. They narrowly defeated Vegeta due to the cumulative damage he suffered, so it only really failed against Freeza where him surviving without heavy damage shows the relative hopelessness and paves the way for Super Saiyan.

And even if you're arguing that it had the short end of the stick until Boo, it's usage against Boo is far more effective than it gets in the Zamasu arc, making the Spirit Sword entirely superfluous. Given that it actually worked against Boo and it was the series finale.

After that, bringing it back again isn't going to top that, and it's just worse to bring it back to have it fail (twice - thanks TOP!)

Having it destroy Zamasu but be utterly meaningless is just empty by comparison.

GT's ending could've topped it...if it made sense.

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.

I did think of that example yeah.

I mean, it does make sense - they broadened the scope to take from the universe instead of just Earth - but it ends up feeling like The Same But More. Good the first time when the idea of taking it from the entire Earth was novel, but repeating it doesn't work so well even if it's a natural progression.

I don't mean the universe aspect, I meant the leading events.

Bigger is better, but what if the growing is painful?

I'd like to believe the reason he wasn't getting hurt was because he died or whatever...but then there was no reason for Omega Shenron to not attack him directly.

Edited by randomness4 on Jul 9th 2019 at 10:15:43 AM

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.

Ooh, that stuff. Yeah, the writers were deliberately vague, but it's easiest to imagine Goku died and Shenron cut him a deal to let him beat Omega.

I was looking at Krillin's background and a strange series of thoughts occurred:

• Krillin was the weakest among the monks at Orin Temple and trained with Roshi to surpass them.
• Goku was considered low-class among the Saiyans and was the weakest Saiyan we knew of at the time.
• Piccolo, while not weak by any means, was at one point/technically the weakest Namekian we knew of due to splitting from Kami.
• Vegeta certainly isn't the weakest at any point in the series - but as soon as he joined the good guys he developed an inferiority complex and, for a short time, was probably the lowest in stature - Gohan always had ridiculous power waiting to be tapped, everyone knew Goku was stronger than Vegeta, and even Trunks had access to Super Saiyan before Vegeta did.
• Gohan was initially the weakest and went back to being the weakest Saiyan during the Buu Saga, and prior to the Tournament of Power.
• Yamcha.
• Tenshinhan doesn't fit.
• Roshi is currently the weakest member of Team Universe 7.
  • Or, well, I guess Tien is actually.

I was going for "the good guys are a bunch of Almighty Janitors" but Vegeta, Tien, and Roshi exist and both of them were prodigies in their fields/cliques. :(

Well they're all still reformed jerks I suppose.

Edited by FOFD on Jul 10th 2019 at 5:07:21 AM

Akira Toriyama (April 5 1955 - March 1, 2024).

I honestly think the Spirit Bomb (or Sword in this instance), was probably the most, thematically appropriate attack to finish off Zamasu. Like what better way is there to kill off a psychopathic god who believes mortals are incapable of anything but needlessly slaughtering each other then with an attack that requires the combination of every person left’s energy? I do think the could have had even a throway scene where Supreme Kai or Goku or, anyone explains the technique to Trunks. As much as I love the spirit sword it really came out of nowhere when there was no reason for it too.

At least the arc ended there though and their totally wasn’t another episode after.

Also seeing as we’ve gotten a planet wide spirit bomb and a universal spirit bomb, when are we inevitably going to get a Multiversal spirit bomb? :p

Edited by tms_forever1 on Jul 10th 2019 at 8:25:15 AM

any of Trunks power ups would have been fine, if they were foreshadowed IDK Goku tries to explain the Spirit bomb to Trunks... then again Goku doesn't really share moves cept the Kamehameha 'Seriously Teach instant transmission... Its too fucking useful for you to squander just so you can make a flashy entrance Goku!'

'Hell let him join the Red/Blue Club since Gohan's pretty much been kicked out' I would say let the Grand Kai of time teach him but She can't crossover... no matter how hard she loves him!

I mean you could be like the manga and let the Kais be useful... but thats too hard for the anime

I'm A Pervert not an Asshole!

The way it was portrayed, it didn't even look like Trunks made the Spirit Bomb: he was just as surprised to see it as Zamasu was. It looked more like the Spirit Bomb spontaneously formed from the people cheering him on.

Honestly, I would've preferred if Goku had started the Spirit Bomb, with everyone else still giving their power and Trunks still absorbing it and creating the Spirit Sword.

Yes. That could have worked. That might have made more sense.

Anyway, Saiga makes a good point about how it was the final attack to finish Buu, but that came about entirely because Toriyama was fully into pushing Gohan out of the spotlight (as we've discussed that it would have made more sense to teleport him to the Supreme Kai planet to kill Buu). It is true that it weakened Vegeta, though I'd argue that it needed at least one fully successful usage against an enemy before Toriyama started pulling the subversion of expectations card that he so loves.

Vegeta still being willing and able to fight at that point did do a good job of showing how tough Vegeta is.

My statement of it getting the short end of the stick is that the attack had only been used twice before being deliberately phased out for Super Saiyan (with the two being mutually exclusive). It's mostly just personal annoyance on my part as I rather like the Spirit Bomb and would have enjoyed seeing it more.

One Strip! One Strip!

Technically it was the Kaioken that got phased out by Super Saiyan

and to be fair remember

The Spirit Bomb IE Goku's last resort was introduced during the LAST four arcs of the series

and well He uses it like a last resort

He uses it against Vegeta, Freiza and Buu

Basically He uses it once per arc after learning it and doesn't bother with it against Cell due to Super Saiyan mastery being the priority and Cell pretty much threatens to to out spirit bomb off

I agree though that Vegeta Should have been put away by it instead of going for the ridiculous amounts of punishment angle... since it kinda ruins the punch of Freiza surviving it though Toriyama was banking on the Size difference... but think about the Narrative repeat 'which happens usually when Toriyama forgets something or... He has a better idea

Gohan is ultimately Vegeta's undoing through a move not of his own... Krillin looming over Vegeta defeated body

The only difference is the fucking Katana and Krillin being done with Vegeta's bullshit 'Goku's reasoning is STILL BULLSHIT YOU KILLED KING PICCOLO TO AVENGE YOUR FRIENDS, YOU DON'T GET TO SUDDENLY DEVELOP A WORTHY OPPONENT COMPLEX FUCK OFF GOKU'

INB 4 Well Technically Vegeta didn't kill any one but Nappa and a Saibaman

Nappa did all the work

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Jul 10th 2019 at 10:23:01 AM

I'm A Pervert not an Asshole!