The Super 17 "arc" is like 5 episodes. He's less prominent as a villain than General White or Raditz.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 5th 2018 at 5:05:10 AM
comparing super 17 to general white and raditz is insulting to general white and raditz
yamcha and oolong were better villains than super 17
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
I'm kinda curious unnoun about what pisses you off so much about GT Super 17
I kinda like some of its ideas actually, like the absortion barrier (and him being having heightened senses to detect the instant transmission)
But that's just me
¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
The Head of the Hydra
I find it hilarious how Gero was somehow able to create an exact fully-robotic copy of 17 in Hell.
Edited by slimcoder on Dec 5th 2018 at 5:52:40 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Having hax OP powers that are totally better than other people's powers isn't actually inherently good? Especially when those hax OP new powers are dumb conceptually, and don't actually address or have anything in common with or related to the original powers they're responding to and better than in a meaningful way, and are only better "because I say so" with no actual setup, explanation or foreshadowing?
Like, the instant transmission "sense" thing is so fucking dumb.
If you called it a "prediction", okay, logically analyzing and assessing the battlefield to determine where the most optimal or statistically probable place to instant transmission would be and responding to it. I could buy that! It'd be cool! Fit being an android! Awesomeness by Analysis!
...Also, pretty sure Goku needs to sense Ki to Instant Transmission, so I dunno that he can even use it against 17. So.
But sensing the "instant" thing just because is dumb! Not sorry!
...The barrier is mostly stupid because of how stupid he looks doing it, but a lot of that is how stupid his design is. It almost feels a little unfair to point out.
Almost.
That's dumb as shit on like 8 different levels.
Edited by unnoun on Dec 5th 2018 at 9:10:40 AM
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
I don't mind those powers, because it feels like it's actually is a counter for Goku and the other fighters (enhanced senses work for countering teleports, absortion barrier works...for practically most of their attacks)
Maybe if Super 17 was his own android not tied to previous ones he may work better...
Being honest I kinda wish MVP 17 had some of Super 17 abilities, at least the absortion barrier (just say Bulma upgraded him before the tournament)
EDIT
Ok I didn't see the completed post, sorry
Gotta say...yeah, you have a good point there, gues he really is dumb
Edited by Fedetropes on Dec 5th 2018 at 11:15:57 AM
¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
I mean, I disagree entirely, but whatever.
...Oh, you edited to respond to my EDIT. Cool.
Edited by unnoun on Dec 5th 2018 at 9:17:17 AM
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
Like I said, didn't see the completed post, sorry
¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
Not really a lord of anything
I don't like him because he has a fake belt. It doesn't hold his pants up, it's just a buckle glued to the front of his jeans.
Super 17 sits on a bed of lies.
This song needs more love.
The belt buckle is kinda like the centerpiece of his design.
Really distracting.
...The sad thing with GT is that I can fix almost every bad idea in it without even actually trying.
...Sometimes the fix is "hey, don't do that" but. Still.
Like.
Why would you introduce the black star dragon balls, which are a threat to the planet, and then have your final villains, a threat to the planet, be from the regular Dragon Balls?
Like, sure, the last bad guys being the Dragon Balls is kinda cool, tying it to some moral point of the heroes is lame, when you already had a macguffin where the explanation was "remember how Piccolo was kinda a dick" why not just. Leave it there?
Especially since seeing and internalizing the evil and sins of mankind is how Piccolo became a dick? So you can still do the pretentious speeches about negative energy? The stuff Piccolo was made of?
Like, shit, skip Super 17, and have the second use of the Black Star Dragon Balls by Baby trigger the Shadow Dragons.
Piccolo tries to kill himself, but it turns out the Shadow Dragons don't need him anymore.
The Shadow Dragons open the portal to hell.
Edited by unnoun on Dec 5th 2018 at 9:44:06 AM
Super 17's Instant Transmission sense seems fine to me?
"I'm sure that on a more inferior opponent that special trick of yours works rather well. It's just one of the perks of being an android that I can sense the vibrations in the atmosphere at the point of your reentry."
That's something I can buy into.
I remember so little about GT I can't in good faith comment on what is or isn't bullshit about it.
I'm curious what my reaction would be if I were to watch it all now, but I'm not going to do that.
I mean.
That's just unnecessary though.
Like, yeah, you could sense his ki and fucking see him too, you cybernetic numbnuts. Both of which, mind you, move faster than air vibrations! Fun fact! Air vibrations are sound! Light is faster than sound! If he's moving faster than you can see, he's probably faster than you can feel the air!
He's not a threat during Instant Transmission, (unless you're Cooler 2,) it's afterwards. That's when you respond to his attacks. Obviously. If you're Jiren or Beerus, just keep on your guard and wait. He might get a cheap shot in, but you're faster than him in realspace, so overall you still probably have the advantage!
Its either a broken OP hax thing, or fucking obvious shit that everyone does.
Edited by unnoun on Dec 5th 2018 at 9:42:02 AM
The Speed of Light/Sound is something you've just got to forget about while watching Dragonball.
Yeah, everything looks the same because there's no way to represent how fast these characters supposedly are.
The King Without a Kingdom
Super 17's the worst GT villain. Yes, even worse than the Parapara Brothers, I meant what I said.
It's been 3000 years…
The Head of the Hydra
Its like how in Bleach all the factions had unique names for their movement technique and it basically all amounted to them doing the same exact thing, Flash Stepping.
The only difference was the little sound they made when flashing.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Garlic Jr. in the filler arc in Z is a better villain.
One of his filler arc henchmen is a a better villain.
Cui is a better villain.
No, wait, did I say Cui?
I meant Appule. Or Orlen.
No, the Saibaman Vegeta blowz up is a better villain. More compelling and interesting as a character, more interesting design and better to look at.
Cooler powers.
and some minor details like the Arrancar being unable to track Sonido because it slips through their radar move
Guys.
Bio-Broly is a better villain than okay I can't actually bring myself to finish that.
The Head of the Hydra
Wait isn’t Sonido the Arrancar Flash Step?
So they can’t tack their own Flash Step?
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Super 17, much like the rest of GT, is so 90s it hurts.
Dragon Ball as a show might have aired in the 90s, especially in the West, but the Manga is basically all 80s all the way.
Like. Mostly.
Aesthetically definitely.
Like. Bulma's Afro thing in the. Cell Saga? Androids? Future Trunks?
Toriyama's works manage not to feel too dated, mostly thanks to the Fantasy Kitchen Sink world and him just throwing whatever he wants into it.
Actually, Super 17 is automatically exempt because of his arc villain status. The actual trope page says that it has to be a side character becoming unexpectedly popular (like as mentioned![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
, Boba Fett). Gowasu still might qualify.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 5th 2018 at 5:20:42 AM