German Politics Thread

BS. I know that Merkel is a big fan of doing everything by the book, but this has been going on for far too long. This guy wanted to keep a Turkish/German citizen who was born and grew up in Germany from coming back to Germany with the reasoning that he hadn't extended is permission to stay while being stuck innocent in Guantanamo bay. He was one of the people who botched the NSU investigation and under him the Verfassungsschutz failed to prevent the Christmas attack despite having information they could and should have acted on. And now the allegations regarding the Af D and denying that there were attacks on foreigners in Chemnitz. Hell, there is a video on You Tube recorded by a foreigner living in Germany which shows someone from the crowd making the slit-throat gesture towards him when he filmed the mob from the questionable safety of his home.

At best the guy is incompetent, but more likely he is actually not believing in the constitution he is supposed to protect himself.

I just want to note that the guy was suggested by the CSU for the post.

And if the Union really makes it to the next elections...I want everyone here who voted CDU to remember all of this the next time I point out that every federal vote for the CDU is also one for the CSU.

Because these days it seems all the support and fertile ground for this shit comes either from the CSU or the right wing of the CDU.

Edited by 3of4 on Sep 7th 2018 at 4:05:11 PM

You don't vote just for the party, you also vote for a specific person. And I am not talking about Merkel, I am talking about whoever is running in your district. And believe me, if you had the picks I got, you would have gone for the CDU, too.

There are also other factors to consider...mainly that if the CDU is strong enough that they don't need the CSU for a majority with their coalition partner, the CSU has no power whatsoever, if it is not, than we have a huge problem. Voting with the CDU meant in my case giving my support to the moderate wing of the CDU, and I don't rue that I did it. If more people had done it, we might not be in the mess now.

Otherwise, who knows how the situation will look like in three years. I don't predict my votes because they change based on who is running and the political situation overall.

Even if the CSU has no official power, they're still getting ministries and support from the CDU. They have power.

I think that next election (assuming the CDU gets more votes than the SPD)^note the AfD might get a plurality, but I think nobody except maybe the CSU would give them a minority government, the SPD should demand that the CDU jettison the CSU, and commit to challenging them in Bavaria starting the election after that, in exchange for either a coalition or even for supply to a minority government.

If the SPD ever did that, the CDU would tell them to f^ck off and rightly so. If the Union comes to an end, it is not happening because of some blackmailing from another party.

Edited by Zarastro on Sep 7th 2018 at 6:33:38 PM

Yeah, if the Union drifts apart, it will happen all on their own. No other party should intervene there. Thus said, I do think that it will break, unless the leadership in the CSU changes. But it is actually not the CSU I am worried about, it is the CDU itself. If Merkel isn't followed up by an equally moderate candidate, it could follow the CSU slipping down the ladder. The idea that Spahn might be the next candidate makes me shudder.

Eh, personally, I expect Spahn to get politically 'Annegret sends her regards'-ed by Kamp Karrenbauer before that happens

Also: Apparently Horst Seehofer has ordered Maassen to give his Bild Interview

Edited by 3of4 on Sep 8th 2018 at 10:44:24 AM

I hope so.

I think my mother was right...she was ranting yesterday about Seehofer, calling him senile.

And, btw, just to show what we are talking about:

What the mob is screaming is mostly "Ausländer raus" (foreigners out) and "Merkel muss weg" (Merkel has to go), but there are also racial slurs thrown in.

I find the whole discussion about the question if there were Hetzjagden or not and how bad they are totally idiotic...just pay attention to the "nice" guy in the white jacket at 1:25. THAT is not okay. We don't need to discuss this, we don't need to make a deal about the question if someone got actually hurt or not, when a mob thinks that they have a right to make dead threats towards innocent people in broad daylight, and that they can do this without facing any consequences, than something goes very, very wrong.

In today's Edition of Bundestagmania there has been a somewhat lively debate day.

First, everyone's favorite Nazi-in-a-Suit Alexander Gauland tried to defend the Chemnitz 'protestors'.

Which was then answered by Martin Schulz who outright called him a Nazi with, quote, "'Migrants are to blame for everything' — there have been similar words in this house before,", unquote, and calling all democrats to rise up and defend themselves against these people.

He also told Gauland he (and people like him) belong on the 'dungheap of history.'

Video of it (in german)

After an Af D Interlude, the next act was FDP chief Liedner calling out Horst Seehofer for making 'migration' the issue instead of the governments handling of it.

And then (not in the article) for the finale, the entire Af D fraction walked out as one when an SPD speaker called them right-radicals

I nearly agree with Lindner, except that he veers a little bit too close to the "on both sides" argument.

Plus, he could have gotten everything he is now demanding if he hadn't walked away from the Jamaica coalition. It is kind of rich to call for the other parties to act more responsible when you yourself refused to take any.

Tbf, if I remember right, the CSU was the stone of discontent then....and we've all seen the shit from last few months.

So what? He didn't even try!!!!! I don't think very highly of the SPD, but at the very least they eventually put Germany over the fear to lose even more votes in another coalition. If the Greens were willing to risk it, the FDP could have, too.

Indeed, the SPD could simply shrugged and let Merkel try her luck in a minority government, or failing that with new elections. Both of which would have been detrimental to Germany. Instead they took responsiblity. Something Lindner pointedly refused. Which is why I feel somewhat bad about Schulze's fate, though it was nice seeing him speek today.

Edited by Zarastro on Sep 12th 2018 at 10:52:52 AM

Really P... off that Maaßen got away. I won't forgive THAT our dear government anytime soon. Between the fact that there is a testimony under oath against him and his behaviour regarding Chemnitz, there is ample reason to remove him. My only hope is now that he will quietly resign, but frankly, this is not enough for me. It is high time to take a very close look at the Verfassungsschutz as a whole. They have messed up way too much in the last 20 years.

With the CSU there is the question of when their rightward shift takes them so far right that one is doing a greater service to Germany by denying them power than by ensuring that there’s a stable government.

There may well come a point when the CSU is just the AFD with a nicer face, going into coalition with the likes the AFD (or a CSU that represents the same views) in the name of stability has nasty historical overtones.

Well, CDU and CSU are still a package deal, and when the majority of Germans vote for the Union, you have to respect that. Not to mention that there was no coalition possible which wouldn't have involved the Union. So...yeah, BS. The FDP had the change to change something, but they rather wanted to make nasty remarks from the side-lines than taking any responsibility.

That doesn't mean that the CSU isn't becoming a huge problem NOW. But nobody could predict that they would go THAT far off the rails back during the elections.

Edited by Swanpride on Sep 12th 2018 at 3:15:42 AM

The CSU is for all its' faults still much, much better than the Af D. At least most of its' voters are not open racists, and we should not take Seehofer as the sole embodiment of the party. His time is limited anyway.

I’m talking more into respect of the future, I’d say that a “No deal if it includes the CSU because for the good of Germany the CSU must be kept from power” is fast becoming a rather reasonable positon.

I don’t buy the “well most people voted for the Union” argument, if most people vote for the AFD that doesn’t mean other parties should prop them up, it means there’s something deeply wrong with the country.

Refusing to work with either Nazis (AFD) or people who collaborate with Nazis (where the CSU seems to be heading) is a reasonable positon.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 12th 2018 at 11:08:38 AM

It is not a reasonable demand. No CDU party leader could accept this and hope to survive.

If the CDU can’t survive without allying with Nazi collaborators than it doesn't deserve to survive.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 12th 2018 at 11:50:58 AM

Lot's of assumptions here. The CSU is still not close to this.

One assumption, that the current direction that the CSU is taking is one that they plan to continue moving in.

If the CSU enters coalition with the AFD than there’s a serious question as to if anyone should be letting the CSU near power, especially at a federal level.

They're close enough, honestly, and I'd rather see them be removed from power before it gets worse - at this point the CDU should just cut them lose and build their own Bavarian branch.

The CSU has hardly done anything to justify this comparison. Do not take the words of Seehofer as examplary for the whole party.

I am not happy that they seem to have forgotten the meaning behind the C in their name, and I expect them to suffer for this, they are still miles apart from the Af D