The Game Developer Thread

I know I can't be the only troper around here who has an interest not just in playing games, but making them, too. So here's a thread for the indie devs, the professional devs, and especially the aspiring devs, to chime in and share our creations, exchange tips and tricks for making games or getting into the industry, and maybe even find some talent for that special project you've been working on.

So anyway, personally I've been making games for something around four or five years now, though I guess I've only really only been shipping "finished" products for three-ish, mostly by going to Global Game Jams, and I usually end up as a programmer and/or sound engineer, and during emergencies, a 2D artist.

Some of the stuff I've done:

• Tangent - The theme was "together we'll never run out of problems" so we made a game with a collection mechanic based on indirect movement when two normally controllable agents latched onto each other
• Leap of Faith - The theme was 'Deception' so we made a platformer where you are a witch running away from the Spanish inquisition, using the power of rain to illuminate the hidden platforms while avoiding people with the black plague
• The Last Extinction: EARTH - The theme was "Extinction" so we made a game where you had to save people from an exploding earth by controlling a collector and satellites that helped give you more time since it was hard coming up with a core mechanic centered around the word "extinction" that wasn't incredibly cliche. Probably our best game to come out of the jams
• Mini-Mages - Not a game jam game, but a third party client sponsored project we did through school. This was a series of games exploring what you could do with iPhones networked through an iPad.
• And we won't mention all the vaporware and things on indefinite hold.

Anyway, for any aspiring devs out there who haven't gotten into it yet, I highly recommend doing game jams, as it's the best way to go through a full product cycle without that pesky long term commitment since they happen over the course of 48 hours. GGJ passed this year, but there's an absolutely hilarious game jam coming up in a week called Molyjam. For anyone who isn't familiar with @petermolydeux (not to be confused with Peter Molyneux, although definitely an affectionate parody), he's some dude who posts silly game ideas to twitter. Someone from Double Fine decided it would be a great idea to organize a jam around these in San Francisco, and it's spread like wildfire since.

So, tropers who are developers? Who's out there with me?

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

I will be. Eventually. Still has to finish college.

Donate money to Skullgirls, get a sweet poster.

I've been working on one. It's been going quite well, and will likely be done by the end of the year, but it seems I'll have to commission the 3D art I need. How troublesome...

The title will be Turtles all the Way: A Shell Game, BTW.

I'll look for distribution channels after I'm done making the game itself. The game certainly won't be small, though.

edited 23rd Mar '12 4:16:24 AM by burnpsy

I have a few ideas in my head.

...I will make one of them one day.

Honest.

^^^&^ Here's the biggest thing I've learned over the years: Don't wait to start making games, and don't aim for your first project to be some grandiose 3D adventure that will reshape the gaming industry. You need to start somewhere, and the industry won't be hiring you if you don't have a portfolio*

, so I can tell you that you won't be starting there. One of the most valuable things you eventually learn from any project is the idea of scope—chances are, you don't have the manpower to do what you have in mind, so learn to kill your babies.

My first game ever was a clone of Asteroids. I came into my high school's computer room every day after class and during free periods to mess with it and I was extremely happy when making it. It turned out awful, though. But I learned a lot! Probably more than I learned in most classes, and that foundation helped inform me on future things. One of the most talented developers I know*

explains why cloning is good for your first set of projects more eloquently than I can

He also wrote an excellent article on just general learn-by-doing. Really, most everything under the "Getting started" tag on his site is a good read for people who haven't gotten their hands dirty, because they basically just say "stop putting it off!"

There's always the "I can't program" defense, but you could always look at modding. I think I started modding Escape Velocity: Nova before I knew what a compiler even was, and it also provides a fun and interesting stepping stone to translatable skills.

^^So can you share what the core mechanic of your game is, or it still in the super secret phase? Also, how's the development process been treating you?

edited 23rd Mar '12 10:15:48 AM by ch00beh

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

Gameplay is still a tight secret.

In any case, this is the first project I've been doing with more than just me, so I was expecting something difficult and hectic, but things have been working out well enough. Though my classes have been taking my attention away somewhat, the other people and I check in every two weeks and see what we've accomplished, which seems to work for everyone.

I just wish I didn't have to code this thing completely on my own. Meh.

I've actually found that indie projects get done faster if there's only one coder who also acts as lead. You need a real good PM if you want to keep adding programmers, because responsibility is hard to divvy up so that there's minimal toe stepping.

Good to hear that it's otherwise chugging along. If you need any beta testers, you know where to find us ;)

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

At this point, really, my only worry is the legal stuff I'll need to sift through at the end of the process. Obviously, I have to secure the rights to everything to be able to use it freely, but I'm not entirely sure about the process for doing so, and lawyers are expensive. .-.

If only there was an elective course for intellectual property stuff.

edited 23rd Mar '12 6:15:58 PM by burnpsy

my reasoning is that if you have gotten to the point where you need to worry about lawyers, you're doing something right so you probably can afford one.

Alternatively, one of my friends had to deal with legal crap once. He was responsible for the first tetris app on the iPhone, and Tetris decided to sue him on the basis of calling it "Tris," even though everyone knew it was because they didn't want his app out there. He ended up just taking the game off the app store, then posted the cease and desist letter on the internet and made tons of bank from other people giving him freelance job offers.

I guess that only applies if you're talking about lawyer stuff in regards to IP. If you're talking about licensing for software used, yeah, you're going to need legal copies of everything if you want to sell your game. Over here in corporate world, I also know that we have to keep a copy of licenses even if the software we're using is open source.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

I'm referring more to having some sort of legal proof that I'm allowed to use the music/2D art other people are working on. I need that before I can submit my final game to anything.

Though the part about holding onto a copy of all licenses is rather interesting, though obvious now that I think about it. Can't prove it's open source without it, after all.

I mean you could just sit down with your teammates and hammer out some kind of reasonable contract when y'all are closer to release. The important part is to make sure they sign it, and that both you and they have a copy. I guess if you're concerned about someone running off with the idea, just make sure you include a clause that says "this idea belongs to the group," then keep the design docs around as proof of copyright. Beyond that, I don't know what you need, though.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

That's a good point, an attorney isn't 100% needed. So I was just worrying needlessly. Meh.

I'm actually aspiring to be a game developer some days. I must finish University first, and then find a job as a programmer, and then work from there.

But I've actually started doing a little game! We're currently a team of three dudes trying to do a little something in java. The development ain't going that well*

. It doesn't help that all three of us are only programmers, so we'll have a problem when we need graphics and sound...But hey, at least we're trying something!

Who's an angry moth? You are! Yes you are! You're the fuzziest and angriest moth! Original pic.

^An article about how to get into the gaming industry after university

Getting your foot in the door is the hardest part, and the tips that Holden makes have worked wonders for pretty much all of our friends who wanted to get in. I'd like to say they were the reasons I even had a chance at third rounds with Bungie, especially the parts about a portfolio and finishing projects, but honestly (and unfortunately) the biggest factor is usually networking as the article emphasizes, so I think Bungie is just weird.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

An aspiring battle system designer here, though I want to try other game-related work too. If there's one thing I love to do, it's crunching numbers. May I ask what exactly a battle system designer does?

Also, any tips on how to make a balanced battle system where Game Breakers can be minimized and both mages and physical fighters can be equally useful even by the late-game? After all, what's the use of a Flare spell which deals 9999 damage if physical attacks can also do the same with no MP cost?

edited 27th Mar '12 1:31:08 AM by judasmartel

Basic thing would be to give some enemies resistance to physical/magical damage. Or implement Breakable Weapons. Or lower the accuracy of physical attacks in general.

^^I'm not that familiar with developing games so I probably have no business commenting here but in terms of balancing between physical and magical there are a couple of things you can use:

• To hit chance- maybe Physical attacks cost nothing but are less likely to hit compared to magic. Personally I feel that THC needs to be applied to all types of combat styles but you can fiddle around with variability in how much more successful some types are compared to others with an appropriate cost.
• Cast from hitpoints- self explanatory. Physical attacks come with the price of a different kind of cost. Naturally the hitpoint cost isn't as bad as the mana cost since hitpoints are so much more vital to immediate survival in gameplay.
• Stamina bar. Why not just give fighters a 'mana' bar in the form of stamina. Allows you to balance things more easily since everything runs off the same basic mechanic
• Repair mechanic, Physical weapons deal heavy damage at the cost of losing 'health' and they frequently need to be repaired compared to mages. In that sense it'll mean Fighters have a long term cost in dungeon crawling and adventuring while mages will tend to have an immediate short term cost in combat and the player will need to manage both.

edited 27th Mar '12 4:33:52 AM by ShadowScythe

I'd go best with a Repair Weapon system because almost every player I know of just normally attacks their way through the final dungeon anyway.

Also, Cast from Hit Points was used in the Shin Megami Tensei franchise, at least for physical skills anyway.

But to me the most practical way of making enemies more difficult is to give them more attack and defense, but not to the point that unorthodox tactics are necessary to beat them.

I think the ideal mook would take 2 turns to take it down using physical fighters and can kill non-defending mages in 2-3 hits.

edited 27th Mar '12 9:53:18 AM by judasmartel

@ ch00beh Thanks! I'll read that when I some more free time tonight.

@ Magic vs Physical balance: The balance strategy I like most is the one where magic is for burst damage, where you can do a lot of damage in a very short period of time, but afterward, you do significantly less damage than a physical fighter. Of course, to avoid cases where the mage does all its damage and then just regenerate all its mana to burst out again, regen of mana should be very slow during battle/in dungeons, or even non-existent.

The physical fighter would do less damage, but can keep doing that amount of damage indefinitely. So in a dungeon where there is a lot of minions and a strong boss, the fighter would be able to fight his way to the boss easily, but would have a harder time with the boss. The mage on the other hand would have a hard time fighting all the minions, but would have a relatively easy fight against the boss, if he managed his mana carefully of course.

Who's an angry moth? You are! Yes you are! You're the fuzziest and angriest moth! Original pic.

I make games for the computer with Game Maker.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13316028840A47680100&page=0

Not the best tool, but an okay place to start. Me being 16 and having plenty of time to learn something else certainly helps >_>'

I make video games. They're not the most interesting video games, but they're video games nonetheless.

I've used C# with XNA and C++ with SFML to develop some pretty cool 'Half Games'. Their usually really simple, have bad art, and only really test one or two 'core' mechanics of a real game. But it's a really good way for me to learn for when I do want to make a real game. I have all the source code, prior knowledge, and experience to do it.

Some of my 'Half Games' Include:

• A simple RGP collision test. A character sprite can be moved around, his sprite has limited animation (he faces the proper cardinal direction), and he can collide with a big rectangle in the middle of the screen with no problems. Made with XNA and SFML

• A simple Platformer Jump physics test. A character sprite that has an animated sprite for East/West, he can be moved East/West, and he can jump. Uses the Y axis value of '500' (that's near the bottom of the screen) for the 'ground'. Made with XNA

• A Chase test. A sprite is controlled by the player, and is chased by an 'enemy' sprite. If the sprites collide, the game is over. The enemy sprite looks to see if it's colliding with the player sprite, and if not, determines whether it is higher or lower than the player sprite, and if it's farther to the right or left of the player, and attempts to make up the difference. Made with XNA and SFML

I haven't made the time to make a real game yet, but I will sometime this Summer Vacation.

edited 27th Mar '12 9:52:16 AM by MrMorg

I tend to like Mr. C's system in that it's not so much about making them both competitive with each other, but more about making them fulfill different roles.

More role differentiation that you could do would be to break from the norm and not give mages the gigantic nukes, but instead give them buffs and debuffs for CC and support.

I suppose if you wanted to do more single player stuff rather than party-based stuff, a role-differentiation system wouldn't really be as fair. But then again, if each class doesn't play differently (as in, you're just balancing a different resource but otherwise play the same), what's the point of choosing one over the other?

In completely different news, Molyjam is in 3 days! If anyone is in the SF area and is an artist, our ballin team could use one (includes half the team that did The Last Extinction: Earth, plus the guy who made Tris)

edited 27th Mar '12 10:39:53 AM by ch00beh

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

And speaking of Molyjam, official update for the San Francisco area: You'll need to formally register here due to limited space.

Also looking at the entire event's news page, it looks like they just keep adding more and more cities to the jam. Anyone planning on looking into this, or am I the only one excited for the weekend?

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

TBQH, I'd never even heard of it until you mentioned it.

It only picked up steam recently, but it picked up exponentially. I only heard about it like three weeks ago or so.

For a bit of history, essentially there's this guy on twitter called @petermolydeux who is an affectionate parody of Peter Molyneux of Fable fame. The fake guy just tweets off the wall, faux-pretentious game ideas (which are sometimes actually good), such as "You are a postman with x ray eyes. Do you post that nasty letter? Do you add extra money in that little boy's birthday card?" and "Try to imagine a game in which you have an imaginary friend who doesn't believe you are real, you must convince them that you are."

At some random point, one of the engineers at Double Fine tweeted "There should be a game jam based on Peter Molydeux's tweets!" And Peter Molydeux saw, and approved, and things started to get organized. At one point, even the real Peter Molyneux tweeted approval of this, and teased that he may or may not show up at the event (doubtful, though).

I think publicity mostly spread through social media and an occasional mention in the gaming blogs. It's definitely not as big as the Global Game Jam, but it's still interesting because of the core concept (a bunch of stupidly hilarious tweets) and because it's got industry professionals backing it.

Again, for any aspiring dev with free time this weekend, I highly recommend going if there's a jam in your area (or if you are awesome at organizing and there is nothing in that area, start one and let them know so they can help publicize and add you to the roster) because it lets you see the entire production process from conception to shipping in a super condensed amount of time. There's pretty much no time to get caught up in ideas that won't work or to get sidetracked by unnecessary features. Plus, whether you get something out or not, you still get something to put in your portfolio and to talk about in an interview. It's great.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter