General Star Wars Thread

You mean the woman-less cut from that loony fan?

Considering the infamous toxicity of the Star Wars fanbase and how Johnson received the bulk of it for making the film, I honestly don't care how he reacts. Any good criticism he could've received is mired by a lot more people screaming "YOU RAPED MUH CHILDHOOD YOU SJW CUCK" at him and Mark Hamill.

And people who don't like the film (many of whom have completely legitimate criticisms) are labeled "alt-right trolls who can't accept change." What's your point?

That after all the harassment he's received, he's entitled to how he views it and calling him arrogant is dumb.

Luigi, stop making personal attacks.

No one is arguing that the harassment was warranted. It isn't.

What we will argue, however, is that Johnson has so far refused any legitimate concerns people have regarding the film and the franchise going forward. He's entitled to any opinion he wants, but he is NOT entitled to freedom from criticism.

Why would he be expected to accept criticism?

I mean when people criticize "problematic" elements of a work, I'd hope that creators would accept those criticisms and attempt to improve on their writing by avoiding those elements, when the criticism is basically that the work sucks/the writer doesn't understand the world in which he was writing, why would you expect them to confess to that?

As with Game of Thrones, I see a similar issue in that there's plenty of legitimate criticism, but I don't really blame the writers from missing it, because of the vehemence/bile which a lot of criticism is framed, especially because in both cases, you have a segment of fans that basically want the writers to admit to failure and step down and retcon/decanonize their writing. Which is obviously not something any writer/creator is ever going to do.

Edit- Incidentally, something I found interesting, this essay on the "problem with Rose" by an Asian-American author. What I found striking is that she makes pretty much all of the same criticisms of the character that I've seen in this thread and others (as well as criticisms of the film generally), but (obviously) without the racist and sexist implications that are sometimes/often in the discussion. Like I think it's more helpful when the discussion is framed, as it is in the article of the film not doing right by the character/actress, then it is when it's in terms of how much people loathe the character (and I think implicitly or explicitly argue that the character shouldn't exist/the actress shouldn't have been cast).

edited 4th Apr '18 11:31:23 AM by Hodor2

Luigi, stop making personal attacks.

Yeah, it's just self serving bullshit is what it is.

edited 4th Apr '18 11:29:35 AM by AdricDePsycho

....

Huh, the YMMV page mentions this. "Originally, Finn would have been reintroduced in the film as one of Paige Tico's co-gunners, holding her in his arms while she died."

A fair point. Let me explain:

I'll concede that not all opinions are helpful to the improvement of a work, nor can anyone be expected to please everyone. The problem is that the backlash to TLJ is, regardless of what some might think, NOT a vocal minority.^note If you want to contest this, please at least provide some evidence. It's a rather unprecedented one — even people who enjoyed The Force Awakens drew the line with The Last Jedi.

Johnson treated the movie as a personal project, or even an art film (his words, not mine), instead of the next installment of the biggest pop culture franchise in existence. And he provided the most disappointing answers to the questions J. J. Abrams practically gift-wrapped for him.

And now Johnson is heading an entirely new trilogy of Star Wars films. He has rejected any concerns that fans have. I don't care what he thinks of his work; he can think whatever he wants — but if he wants his movies to make money, he's going to have to please a large enough number of fans to do so. I've seen no small number of people boycotting all Star Wars films from here on out.

edited 4th Apr '18 11:41:48 AM by TempestKnight

You have to check up the other audience scores to check if it's truly a majority.

While it's true that some people treat their films a bit too much like art projects, you shouldn't always expect to listen to all fans' criticism just for the sake pleasing them. He'll do what it can be right for the film and that's that.

Eh, they were disappointing questions that deserved the unceremonious answers they got.

I don't blame Rian for how he reacts, fandoms can be pretty unreasonable most of the time.

When I said that TLJ was at risk of becoming Deader Than Disco, I refer to the fact that TLJ's backlash was vocal enough to get media attention (something that has not really happened with other Star Wars films or even Marvel films except for Iron Man 3 and its Mandarin Twist) despite having a critical approval of 90% or higher, the perfect conditions for the professional critical approval to become obsolete in the future.

And attempts to generalize the dissenters into one group (be it "butt-hurt fanboys" or "alt-right trolls") have done nothing but intensify the flames and ironically convince the dissenters that they were on to something. I for one had found myself finding to hate TLJ more and more when I hear people insisting that TLJ is a flawless masterpiece or that RJ seems to be ignoring criticisms to a fault (not a good way to restore confidence). In my opinion, if the work is indeed flawless, it should stand by itself and not require defenses from anyone really.

edited 4th Apr '18 12:55:07 PM by Shadao