The inherent problem of transporting the Greek idea of sex to a society of women is that they didn't have an idea of female sexuality.
Easy way around that: the Amazons (that sicko Diana notwithstanding) don't have an idea of male sexuality. Sorta like that version of the Amazons that has them as a Bizarro people whose women go off to war and whose men stay home and weave.
edited 16th Mar '15 7:12:07 AM by Bonerfart
Which in turn makes it absolutely impossible to link it back to Greco-Roman ideas of sexuality because that was the core of it.
Which is why I suggested making it a Rule 63 version of their understanding of sexuality.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
4x I can see the Amazons developing views on sexual relationships completely opposite to the Romans and the Greeks if only to spite them.
Diana will be gaining a new costume summer: http://comicbook.com/2015/03/12/wonder-woman-debuts-new-costume/
Personally I prefer a white and gold costume like the one Stan Lee proposed (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J4TKX13QL.jpg)){kind=small}
Not many superheroes were those colors and it would be nice to give her color scheme that's no too similar to Clark.
The Greeks definitely had a view on female sexuality; the commonly held idea was that women were sexually voracious. Essentially a flip from western ideas today; how accurate it was is questionable, since it was the patriarchy's view of female sexuality. For a rare female view of such things at the time, you can always read Sappho of Lesbos, whose poetry dealt with heterosexuality AND homosexuality.
The Greeks view on homosexuality changed with the times. Athenians around 480 BC were grossed out to hear that Spartans had open views on homosexuality (at least among men). Later on, homosexuality actually became fashionable among the Greek upper classes (again, among men) as did, unfortunately, pederasty. So it depends on what era of Greece you're talking about. There's also the idea of what the "official" line was as opposed to what was generally accepted.
Any one got ideas on how to handle Donna Troy?
No idea how to handle her origin, but I'd make Terry Long her archnemesis, the Diabolical Mastermind known to the world only as Daddy
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What was it about Terry that people found so creepy? Donna wasn't his student and she wasn't a teen when they started dating.
A: He's old enough to be her father.
B: Just look at him!
A: Again she wasn't a teen. There was a ten year difference at most between them and that was it B: He's kind of goofy looking I admit but "creepy" is not how I'd describe him.
Also, a number of very vocal and widely read fans felt that Terry Long was a thinly-veiled self-insert for the writer, Marv Wolfman.
Moving away from the single most repulsive character a superheroine has had the misfortune of being shipped with...
If we're still discussing how to do a Wonder Woman reboot, new version of the Amazonomachy: it's touched off by two (2) events. First, as in the version written down by Pseudo-Apollodorus, Hippolyta (not Diana's mom here, what with my take on these rebooted Amazons being mortal demigoddesses, an earlier queen the current queen is named after) was impressed by Heracles and was going to give him her girdle of her own free will, but Hera, disguised as an Amazon, started spreading a rumor that he was there to abduct Hippolyta. The Amazons flipped their shit, Hippolyta died in the crossfire, and Heracles took the girdle off her body and noped away. Second, shortly before that but only discovered almost immediately after, Hippolyta's younger sister Antiope eloped with Theseus, as in the version written down by Pausanias. Understandably, the Amazons invaded Attica seeking to put Athens to the torch.
Nice proper Greek tragedy. Heracles triumphed, but the carnage, ultimately including the death of Antiope, was entirely unnecessary.
edited 21st Mar '15 12:00:27 AM by Bonerfart
Actually, back in the old New Teen Titans where he was introduced, it was stated that Terry was 29 to Donna's 19. A mite out of the ordinary, perhaps, but not nearly old enough to be her father.
I think I lot of his creep factor might stem from how he was drawn at first; this was the early 80's, after all, and initially he was drawn in full on John Travolta mode, with some kind of leisure suit, an open collar exposing his hairy chest, and, I'm not kidding, gold chains. It boggles the mind. Still, he usually came off pretty well in the comics, up until they killed him off in the '90's when he became a jerk. He was kind of like the Titans' level headed den-father.
edited 21st Mar '15 11:04:08 AM by Robbery
Alex de Campi gives her thoughts on WW:
The main triad of DC Comics are two very easily definable, binary characters (Batman, the vengeful man with no powers, and Superman, the kindly man with godlike powers) and a chick. I feel writers have often struggled with defining Diana in that triad. Too often she comes across as the fierce, unsmiling virgin — the good girl, the Strong Female Character in the simple way that men often define strength (seriousness, grittiness). In clumsy hands, she comes off as harsh, lecturing, joyless. And Paradise Island? Really, that place doesn’t look like much fun.
I think the reality — as much as one can talk about reality with a made-up character — can be much more complex, and much more satisfying. My Diana is based more on modern figures like Beyoncé, who I love, because she is an idealised version of the woman I want to be — beautiful, graceful in her dealings with the public, incredibly talented, and somehow able to keep a handle on an extended family full of strong and difficult personalities. Diana knows who she is, knows what Instagram is, and has to manage her public personality as any female in the public eye must. She is kind and patient with her fans. She knows the fame game, and navigates it well (even though, privately, she may find it not much fun.)
(If I ever did a Diana series, in the first few pages she’d be walking in to the Justice League to work in the morning with a BFF, like Vixen, in skinny jeans, a jacket, and a t-shirt that says “Social Justice Amazon”… probably with a gift for the girl on reception — tickets to Into the Woods — because she knows it’s the girl’s birthday and Diana is nice like that.)...
SHE IS CONSIDERATE, AND HER FEMINISM IS BROADER THAN WESTERN WHITE FEMINISM. When the preview of my Sensation story went viral on twitter, a couple people took me to task for having Wonder Woman wearing a hijab while doing rescue work in Pakistan. I was throwing women under the bus, I was not feminist, etc. I didn’t answer those people because that’s not an argument I wanted to get into in 140 char chunks… though I can summarise my views very succinctly: feminism is wearing whatever the hell you want, and supporting and respecting the choices of anyone who defines themselves as female to wear whatever the hell they want. Feminism isn’t slut-shaming. Feminism isn’t denigrating our muslimah sisters. Feminism isn’t telling modest girls or girls who like boy’s clothes that they need to dress more “attractively” to be successful. Feminism isn’t insulting a curvy girl for wearing a bikini or leggings or taking pride in her curves. Feminism isn’t shaming teen moms, or sex workers. I can go all day listing the isn’ts, but let’s focus on the is: feminism is supporting a woman to be however she wants to be.
Diana is also PRACTICAL, and gets the job done. She wants to save villagers from a flood in Pakistan? Damn straight she’s going to wear a hijab, because then the people she needs to deal with locally are going to be a lot more likely to trust her and listen to her than if she rocks up in an outfit that is very shocking to local sensibilities. Also, people: stop being afraid of the hijab.
I have issues too with Diana’s origin, as it’s evolved of late. I reject the idea of Diana being the daughter of Zeus, from an island of white chicks. (Seriously, I find all those Greek god storylines so fucking boring. Comics writers: you’re not Ovid.) For me, Paradise Island is like Valhalla… the greatest female warriors from all around the world go there when they die. So of course they can’t reproduce, because they’re all technically dead. This brings Diana back to the wonderful (and creepy) Marston origin of her being a statue the women made and brought to life to amuse themselves. (That also gives a similar origin to Nubia, who I view as Diana’s twin, and who needs to be in a lot more books because she’s amazing.) So my Diana grew up in a really cool place, hanging out with female Samurai and Sikh warrior-princesses and Kublai Khan’s daughter, whose father promised her to marry the first man who could beat her in wrestling, but if he lost he had to give her 1,000 horses, and who died unmarried, but with 100,000 horses. And Diana learned from all of them.
Hate to nitpick, but that wasn't Marston's origin for her. They made that concept for her origin in like '59, long after Marston's death, but they couldn't get it to stick until after Co IE.
Back to the actual subject... kinda torn. On the one hand, emphasis on SJW-ing. On the other hand, she seems self-aware enough to avoid a lot of the hypocrisy typical of SJ Ws, ignorance that historically warrior women were very much out of the ordinary (not like they didn't happen) notwithstanding.
In any case, a better introduction to Terry Long. It bears repeating that the second link is his debut issue.
Also, I need to know the context here before I start having nightmares
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edited 24th Mar '15 10:28:41 AM by Bonerfart
News on Grant Morrison's Wonder Woman:Earth One
That's the only bit on Wonder Woman in the interview. I'm looking forward to it though I am a bit annoyed by Morrison's comments about the clay origin and the constant emphasis on Marston which I think might damage the character.
How would going Marston damage Wonder Woman?
I meant in that Marston is almost always all people talk about when it comes to WW and the contributions of other writers get ignored or downplayed.
I am not looking forward to Morrison's take on this. Particularly since in an earlier review he went on about how the character needed "fixing" which tends to be problematic. Wish they'd let Greg Rucka do it like they were originally going to.
There's that word again.
But seriously, I just hope Morrison's gotten over his mommy issues enough to do what he's planning on doing justice.
Looks like Diana will be getting a new villain in Darseid War
Yanick Paquette is done with WW: Earth One.
So how are people enjoying Rebirth?
I know it was their view of gay sex. It's okay to fuck a dude in the ass, but it's shameful to be fucked in the ass.