Marvel Cinematic Universe

He also had a reaction that Man of Steel, saying it was so dark he got traumatized and started writing more light-hearted stuff afterwards to compensate

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 22nd 2023 at 3:46:19 AM

I think the airport fight was meant to lighten the mood before the gutpunch ending that almost got changed.

Edited by Mizerous on Sep 22nd 2023 at 6:52:11 AM

To be fair, Civil War really isn't an especially jokey movie. It follows Cap, who's a less than jokey character, on an emotional adventure to save his best friend which he eventually fails, while Iron Man is the main antagonist with the sympathetic motive of trying to save his friend group which he also eventually fails, and the only real consistent humor comes from Iron Man's quips (which decrease as the movie goes on) and Falcon and Bucky's rivalry.

I can certainly see the point of view that it's not a very humorous movie. It's just weird to say that it's dark compared to the comic of Civil War. At least no one pointlessly dies in the film.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 22nd 2023 at 4:40:07 AM

Plus the explosion that sets off movie Civil War is far less catastrophic than the comic version.

Which destroyed Stamford Connecticut, killing over 600 people including the children too.

And Iron Man wasn't a dickhead like the comics cloning Thor or the Phantom Zone prison etc.

Yeah, I also found it weird he dissed Man of Steel for showing Superman killing when in Jupiter's Legacy, the question of if superheroes should kill is brought up and the argument falls more towards "yes".

I think it’s a double standard with Superman

Mark Millar and this also apples to Garth Ennies are huge Superman fans and don’t like subjecting him to their typical edgelord theatrics. He is the superhero they largely place on a pedestal and like keeping pure.

Honestly there has always been a double standard with Superman.

• People complain that he is too powerful, when there are plenty of heroes and villains at his level, or higher.
• People will say he's too powerful for a video game, even when there are games where you control gods.
• People will say what is too good, when there are dozens of superheroes who have morals just as strong as theirs
  • On the other hand, there are people who will say that Superman is "one dead Lois Lane" away from being a psychopathic dictator, even though that is more the exception than the rule.

Edited by Luisdalas on Sep 22nd 2023 at 8:11:45 AM

Superman is more of a crab bucket kind of guy.

Because he's the standard people measure heroes for and for a guy that's "hard to adapt" he's had more successful adaptations than any other superhero except Batman and that is the only competition.

Is their position that it's wrong for superheroes to kill, or is it that it's wrong for Superman to kill?

x10 He got traumatized by Man of Steel? Even knowing that he's a Superman fanboy I find that hard to believe considering that Millar has written stuff that makes the Snyderverse look like a Disney Junior cartoon.

To bring it back to the MCU, I have many problems with Captain America: Civil War but I think the tone it has works. It's not as light-hearted as other MCU movies but that's always been the case with Captain America movies and it's far from the darkest MCU movie. That would be Guardians 3 or Black Widow.

Edited by LadyBlackwood on Sep 22nd 2023 at 12:31:16 PM

With Superman.

Garth Ennies is especially well known for despising the superhero genre in its entirety except for Superman.

To Ennies he's the only guy that's alright.

And Spider-Man. Between all the cartoons, TV shows, foreign adaptations, and of course movies, if Batman's got more it's only because of seniority.

I don't know if I'd call Guardians 3 the darkest MCU movie. It's got some of the darkest moments, but it also balances it out with a lot of comedy that keeps the tone a bit lighter. I think overall Eternals is the darkest, since it's very dour and doesn't have a lot of big comedy scenes.

It's Ennis. Garth Ennies sounds like he's trying to catch a tiger by the toe.

Now that you guys have mentioned him, I wonder how Ennis feels about the MCU adapting his Punisher stuff.

Edited by fanman on Sep 22nd 2023 at 9:25:58 AM

I really am starting to wonder if the MCU should try to be Darker and Edgier or Lighter and Softer in terms of general tone going forward...

Re: Millar:

From what I've read of their comics, a lot of the dark/edgy stuff they put in is meant to be Dark Comedy - so the subject matter might be dark, but the tone is still meant to be light.

I mean I would say they haven't, really. Not yet. The Netflix version was good but pretty distinct from the Ennis take.

I'd like them to be less jokey overall, even if they keep the light tone.

The mcu has always had jokes, the problem started in Age of Ultron, when they started putting jokes in serious moments.

This got to the point that someone dying of cancer cannot be taken seriously.

I don't agree. Thor: Love and Thunder was very clear (to me at least) to show that the "cancer jokes" were a coping mechanism to cover grief and denial.

As for the comedic nature of the MCU, the first Thor film made a running gag out of him being hit by cars, and there were plenty of jokes at the expense of his intelligence as well. People just have selective memories.

It always bothered me that people complained about Love and Thunder being too jokey while praising that film's predecessor, which has not one but two dumb jokes right after an entire planet is destroyed. Love and Thunder at least has various moments that are actually serious, mostly involving Jane.

Thank you

The cancer jokes were among the humor that actually landed because it was characterization not quipping.

I will maintain until my dying breath that Love and Thunder has the soul of a great movie. It's just hidden under poor pacing and editing choices.

That particular scene is one of the things Ragnarok gets criticized for the most often. But, it's one lame joke at the end of what was otherwise a great movie. Love and Thunder goes way too hard into jokes just like that.

Most of the humour in Ragnarok comes from Thor being a Fish out of Water, and what doesn't comes from The Grandmaster, Hulk, and Korg having big personalities. Love and Thunder just has him run around acting like a stupid asshole. Honestly, he's written like he's Shazam. It doesn't work. Plus, Korg's shtick long outstays its welcome.