Marvel Cinematic Universe

I mean, that doesn't necessarily make it legal. Illegal human trafficking still happens here on Earth.

But yes. Until the cloak is pulled back and Ego's villainy is laid bare, the Guardians really had no reason to believe Mantis wasn't just his kooky live-in maid.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Jul 10th 2019 at 7:06:14 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

To clarify, is this the argument that you are making:

"Slavery is still legal in some terrible parts of the galaxy such as the Kree Empire. Therefore, the decision for the Guardians to condone slavery is not an accidental writing flub, but an entirely deliberate and indeed acceptable aspect of their characters."

Because it sounds like that is what you're saying. But before I go off on how f*cked up that would be, I want to make sure that is the actual statement you are deliberately intending to make.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2019 at 5:06:06 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

This seems like more justification for Carol to stay in outerspace, because it isn't just the Kree.

‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’

Slavery was common two centuries ago here.

We still had abolitionists, we still had buggers who were of the impression that it was wrong.

“Because it was common” means nothing when it comes to morality.

Also, how is a pet and a slave different when it applies to sentient beings?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

To clarify, in the first film, when trying to sell the Orb to the Collector, they could pretty much tell that Carina was a slave and didn't say or do anything then either. If your argument is "But that makes them horrible people!" well, yes, that's kind of the point.

I mean, did you assume they thought she was merely the Collector's servant? Or did you think that when they became "the Guardians of the Galaxy," their intrinsic values and biases completely and utterly changed?

Not "some terrible parts." We get no indication how widespread slavery is accepted, but clearly it is. The Kree Empire is pretty vast. And we've seen them have human and Inhuman slaves in Agents of SHIELD, too.

The universe is a dark and terrible place. And the Guardians can't change societies on fundamental levels even if they wanted to.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:20:05 AM

Okay. So you are, in fact, saying that it is acceptable for the heroes of this family-friendly blockbuster film to condone slavery.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we need our heroes to explicitly say that bad things are bad.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

So we have bad faith arguments and putting words in people's mouths now Toby

Please stop this,I'm asking nicely

New theme music also a box

They aren't condoning slavery, they just aren't doing anything about it. Or you do want them to continually shout "Slavery is bad! Free your slaves!" whenever they go into a society that has slaves? Because that's going to a) get tedious, b) get them killed quickly. They have to pick their battles and slavery, being an intrinsic problem that will only be changed through large societal changes, isn't one of them.

Also, Gamora and Nebula were assassins who presumably killed large numbers of people while working for Thanos, but noooo, it's not doing anything about slaves that makes them terrible people.

Uh-huh. "Not doing anything about slavery" is totally a thing that superheroes should be about. Gotcha.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Is there not a difference between “not doing anything” and not “acting as though this is wrong”?

Why is there a dichotomy between “free all slaves” or “act as though you have no problems having slaves”?

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:35:51 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

They aren't superheroes. They are bad guys who do good things sometimes..

You guys realize that the Guardians are all bad people, right? (Well, all except Groot.) I thought that was pretty much laid out in the first film.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:35:41 AM

They're mercenaries so...they're good bad guys

New theme music also a box

Exactly my point. They're good bad guys. Condoning slavery is a bad bad guy thing.

Like. I wasn't even trying to make a point that the Guardians condone slavery. My point was that Guardians 2 handles Mantis so horribly that it creates Unfortunate Implications. I was not prepared for someone to make the argument that the Guardians do, in fact, canonically condone slavery as an actual honest-to-god character trait and that it's a totally fine thing.

My mind is blown that this conversation is happening right now. I legit don't know what to say here.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2019 at 5:39:19 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Shouldn’t being OK with slavery be the line to not cross?

We have a trope for why slavery is a special thing when it comes to malevolence.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:38:44 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

Like, at the end of the first film, Drax literally says, "What if someone does something irksome and I decide to remove his spine?" And Corpsman Dey says, "That's...that's actually murder. It's one of the worst crimes of all, so also illegal." And Drax clearly doesn't think it's that bad, only going "Hmm."

So...they are all bad guys. You really didn't get that with the first film?

Except they aren't "good bad guys." They are bad guys that occasionally do good things. They don't do anything about slavery, because, well, that's a widespread societal problem.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:40:40 AM

I think the film could have better acknowledged Mantis being a slave. It was mostly used as the butt of the joke until she was suddenly on their side/under their protection.

Shouldn’t there be a limit? Shouldn’t slavery be the limit?

It’s not as though they can’t be scumbags and feel slavery is wrong.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:41:36 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

Hey, you guys do realize America still has slaves, right? They are just called "prisoners" now, but they can be forced to work for nothing. And lots of people aren't doing anything about it.

Just because we aren't doing anything about the Prison Industrial Complex, does that mean we're bad bad guys?

I mean, are you doing anything against the Prison Industrial Complex? Besides "voting" which is the minimum you can possibly do.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:45:04 AM

OK, you’re confusing “not doing anything about it” with “not being comfortable about it or not saying how it’s wrong, even to themselves”.

It’s not a high bar for the latter.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:47:01 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

That's the same thing. Even if you are uncomfortable about it, you aren't doing anything about it, therefore you condone it.

We don't know if the Guardians are comfortable or uncomfortable with slavery. Only that they don't do anything about it.

So far they have encountered two slaves: Carina, who killed herself in front of them, and Mantis, whom they freed (unintentionally). Both of them were slaves of very powerful people. And they probably didn't even know Mantis was a slave, as we've already pointed out.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:48:02 AM

What I recall is during then Quill was being brainwashed by Ego's celestial vision and thus wasn't comprehending things humanely anymore. He wouldn't have normally been okay with xenocide; he was made to view things from a higher plane and it took a very personal shock to snap him out of it.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 10th 2019 at 4:50:26 AM

I.

Like.

Oppose the military-industrial complex and vote for people who also oppose it. Which is the most that I, a non-superhero who does not exist in a blockbuster film, can do.

Do you not?

(What is this conversation?)

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2019 at 5:52:32 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

So how about we talk about something else?

I've been re-playing LA Noire recently and it occurred to me that the basic mechanics of that game could easily be used as a basis to a Jessica Jones video game adaptation, except in such a hypothetical scenario you can actually lose if you don't get enough info rather than the game railroading along like nothing happened.

I mean, if he was ever okay with xenocide, the first movie wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jul 10th 2019 at 8:56:29 AM

Yeah, Quill was not himself while merged with Ego for the Expansion. I'm not even sure he understood what the expansion would do to the universe.

And slavery exists in space, that's the end of that conversation. The Guardians are a tiny faction in an infinite universe, they're not going to suddenly start a moral revolution. Nor they would, as has been pointed out, they all have rather squewed moral compasses.

Once again: the Guardians aren't superheroes. They, like you, have no say in how the societies they interact with are run.

Imagine if you are a visitor to another country. You have come to, I don't know, bring back a kidnapping victim. But while there, you also see that the government condones slavery. Except what are you doing to do? You can't fundamentally change that country's laws by yourself. All you can do is the job you were given and that's it.

The Guardians are people who have a job and they do it. They aren't superheroes.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 10th 2019 at 5:00:25 AM