Marvel Cinematic Universe

I’d rather he act like Hitler than Rommel. Does that answer your question?

Edited by wisewillow on Dec 17th 2018 at 2:18:37 PM

So you're saying we need a scene like this, but with Thanos?

I think so, yeah. Maybe in his dialogue with Strange, the good doctor who knows what the Stones can do might’ve prodded Thanos more on why his plan supposedly HAS to be the exact same one as Titan’s. And that’s where we’d see Thanos’s mask start to slip.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Dec 17th 2018 at 11:28:50 AM

He would probably just point to Gamora's homeworld again as that's "proof" that his idea works in his mind. So he'd go "well my homeworld didn't listen to me, and it died. I did what needed to be done here, and now it's thriving more than ever. So tell me Strange, how am I wrong?"

It's going to take much more than that to make Thanos's façade "slip" I suspect. And I also suspect that it will happen in Endgame.

I really like the idea that, if they're really doing time travel, Thanos' machinations end up dooming the universe - and the Avengers have even more reason to go back and stop him due to those stakes.

Like, because half of everyone is wiped out, the nations of the universe are in disarray and chaos reigns, but Thanos is nothing if not able to ignore consequences like that or reimagine them as being proof he's right. But then something huge happens, some gigantic new threat that might have been stopped if those who would have defended the universe weren't crippled steamrolls over everything, and Thanos can only watch as thanks to him all life in the universe is steadily wiped out.

About the academy award discussion...I am a little bit confused about the focus there. The only thing which has been published so far are the short-lists for nine of the basic awards, two of which the MCU movies aren't even eligible for, since they are neither shorts nor foreign movies. The MCU movies made the short-list for special effects, Black Panther is still on the run for Make-up.

And in this context...look, I habe Black Panther for sure for costume (this list hasn't been published yet), but I wouldn't nominate it for either Make-up (though due to the award push Disney did it might end up on the list) or Special effects. Let's be honest here, the order in terms of Special effects is clearly Infinity War - Ant-man - Black Panther. I suspect that the best of the best were busy with Infinity War, hence the special effects in Black Panther suffered a little bit.

And Infinity War deserves the award for Thanos alone. Frankly, Marvel is overdue for a win in this category, and I would be very upset if due to all the marketing Disney did, the award somehow ends up with Black Panther, which is really not a good example for what Disney/Marvel can do in terms of special effects.

If Thanos doesn't end up netting a SFX award, it'll be the ultimate proof that the Academy is run by demented dickheads.

And really, the Russos and M&M did a wonderful job at making a villain that is at the same time monstrous and human, without it coming across as forced, like giving The Joker a puppy or something, why are ya'll so insistent that they throw all that away and turn him into some one-dimensional cardboard of a character for, what? I frankly just don't get it.

Edited by HailMuffins on Dec 18th 2018 at 10:01:27 AM

I agree. Thanos alone is impressive. Add to him Rocket, Nebula and just how the different battles are designed…it would be a great injustice if any movie except Infinity War wins this one.

There's also how all the Black Order were motion-captured.

Huh I just remembered that the most criticized part about Black Panther was that its special-effects were a bit lackluster, especially in the final battle.

Just to digress for a moment, but someone up compared him Thanos to Immortan Joe.

The thing that separates them, however, is that Immortan Joe is the Antagonist of the movie, the guy we root against, the obstacle the protagonists must overcome to get their happy ending, or better yet, to earn it.

And all of his characterization revolves around him being as hateful as possible. Even his fragile health, where anywhere else might be used to humanize him, just paint him as a giant hypocrite, yet another reason for us to wish his face to be ripped off, so when that finally happens, we cheer all the more.

He barely qualifies as a character, really, just an object for the audience to hate.

Thanos, meanwhile, is the Protagonist of Infinity War. The movie is his tale, his Hero's, well, Villain's Journey. If the movie didn't paint an at least human picture of the man, then his eventual success would simply be infuriating.

For as much as people say it ended on a cliffhanger, the movie really didn't: it ended exactly where it should, with it's protagonist basking in the satisfaction of his well-earned, if not well-deserved, victory, his work completed.

If Thanos was simply the villain of the story, just another obstacle to be toppled, then Endgame would simply be the second part of a story split in half, making IW simply an incomplete, dissatisfying movie. By doing what I outlined above, it simply turn into a new story, this time about the OG Avengers earning their happy.

Well, the SFX was far from the only problem with BP's third act.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great movie, one of this year's best, but Ryan Coogler really didn't stick the landing.

Also, the motion-capture for the Black Order was far from flawless, but it work because, differently from Thanos, the movie never really paints them as figure to be sympathized or pitied. They're, well, they're Immortan Joes, basically.

Edited by HailMuffins on Dec 18th 2018 at 10:44:39 AM

Well, for the Special effects award, the special effects are the deciding factor. The Special Effects of Black Panther were widely criticised, not just by the audience but also be experts in the area. So it really, really shouldn't even be on the shortlist for this specific award and I hope the if two Marvel movies make the list, it will be Infinity War and Ant-man, with Infinity War being the overall winner.

I thought M'Baku's entry into the final battle and the last exchange between Okoye and W'Kabi were awesome and kept it from being a total groan.

Did we watch the same third act? I thought Coogler absolutely nailed it.

I liked BP's finale but even I noticed the shiftiness in the CG.

And that's telling cause I never notice that shit.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 18th 2018 at 5:51:47 AM

Truly, if anyone accuses BP's nomination of being simply politically motivated, I would be forced to agree.

"Can't put a big blockbuster on the best movie or best screenplay awards, nooooo, the True Art police will take our snob certificates away from us. I know, let's put the movie up for a SFX award, despite the fact the C Gi was the most shit on aspect of the film and has bugger all to do with what makes it culturally relevant or widely praised!"

Frankly, fuck the Oscars, if there was ever a time they were something worth talking about then that is not the time we currently live in.

Edited by HailMuffins on Dec 18th 2018 at 10:53:32 AM

The CG for T'Challa and Killmonger - especially as the two were falling down the mines - was uh, a bit questionable. That when I think about it is really my only serious, serious quibble.

Yeah I noticed there was something off with that fight.

Also a little something going on with the rhinos crashing into T'Challa.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 18th 2018 at 5:56:32 AM

The CGI had some questionable moments, but I was talking about the quality of the third act itself, not the CGI.

Well the third act did have a good amount of CG so its not like the two things are separate.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 18th 2018 at 6:00:42 AM

Thanos is not the protagonist of Infinity War. That's a complete misreading of the concept.

???? As far as I know the shortlist for the big categories and some of the smaller ones in which I can see Marvel movies turning up (you know, best costume for Black Panter, the sound categories) haven't been released yet. So...maybe waiting for a rant about that?

The story, themes, and acting of the third act are very separate from the question of whether the rhinos looked good.

Its a climactic action set-piece.

Plus its about fucking rhinos not something you can exactly overlook.

Though as mentioned the CG surrounding the Black Panther vs Golden Jaguar fight is a bit shifty which hurts cause their fight is the movies climax.

? I mean, I didn’t really notice the rhino CGI being off until people mentioned it. The emotional core of the third act was so strong I just... didn’t notice the rhinos or fight CGI being off. The excellent scenes with M’Baku, the resolution in the ancestral plain, T’challa’s grand entrance and the Dora Milaje revolt, Shuri and Nakia’s determination, the fight over the soul of Wakanda with W’Kabi’s hatred overruling his good sense, all of it gripped me. It’s Shakespearean; the lost relative comes home to challenge for the throne/challenge the world view of the heir. And the world shakes, and the heir is (almost) slain, and the royal family goes into exile to seek help from a former enemy lord, and the royal court is in disarray, and some stay, and some leave, and the heir returns to fight for his country and yet he realizes the lost royal has a point, and the tragedy is that the last royal has become what he hated, and OH MY GOD I WANNA WATCH IT AGAIN RIGHT NOW.

I would rant, because none that is what makes Black Panther a movie with such a big impact. It's a movie that deserves to be in the big categories, and anything less is just the Academy weakly trying to deflect criticism, which I take exception to.

Well, I felt the whole deal was rather by the numbers, but to each their own.

And it's a great movie regardless.

Edited by HailMuffins on Dec 18th 2018 at 11:31:35 AM