Marvel Cinematic Universe

I liked that Ghost wasn't really a villain, but it felt weird that the heroes basically never attempt to negotiate with her or display any worry that their victory could risk her death. It's only towards the end that Hank offhand mentions a "yeah sure, I'll cure her too, anyway gotta leave", after two hours of everyone treating her like an obstacle.

I recall Honest Trailers pointed that out too. "Ghost, a girl who just wants to cure her chronic pain, and gets the snot beaten out of her for trying. That'll teach you to not to want pain!"

I liked Ghost. I found her a sympathetic character, and I loved that we finally got a superhero movie where the reaction to a tragic villain with a solvable problem was to help them rather than kill/imprison/defeat them.

We need more movies that don't treat violence as the best or only solution. I agree that the protagonists should have acted on that sooner, but to see it happening at all is a relief.

Edited by Galadriel on Nov 16th 2018 at 11:56:36 AM

I think Hank and Hope were really, really preoccupied with getting their mother back. After all, if your mother had been missing for twenty years and suddenly, you have twenty-four hours to get her back, would someone coming up to you and saying, "Okay, I need to use all your stuff in order to fix my pain and oh yeah, it might kill your mother, too" would you care about her or would you try everything just to get your mother back?

Edited by alliterator on Nov 16th 2018 at 8:55:54 AM

What she needs is quirks, she’s rather plain as is.

I think why I care so much is because comics-Ghost is such a deranged maniac with his whole anti-corporate spiel & being the team-freak & his lack of personal hygiene which makes him rather fun.

She needs that to become fun.

It actually fits in line with how the Pyms (barring Janet) are tremendous assholes. It’s not an exaggeration to say they are both terrible people.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 16th 2018 at 9:32:50 AM

I dunno if it counts as hygiene, but Ava does have really bad teeth.

Hank and Hope are assholes. They're supposed to be. While the thing they want is sympathetic, their actions and approach towards getting it are selfish and often make them oblivious to the people around them.

I did like that about their and Scott's dynamic. Scott is, on the other hand, less successful and more outwardly flawed, but despite their derision for him is actually the more responsible, more invested in doing right by both himself and the people around him, and more in tune with what's important, so he keeps them all human.

As for making Ghost fun, I have the conception of her becoming the comically socially-inept Token Evil Teammate, a la Nebula in GOTG 2. I still want it to be a thing in Infinity War part 2 that literally everyone in Cassie's family circle got Snapped - except Scott, of course - leaving Ghost, who has zero moral compass whatsoever, as the only one left to raise her.

Thus making the teenage Cassie Scott meets in Infinity War a dark anti-hero (maybe even a supervillain), inciting Scott to go back in time and fix everything.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 16th 2018 at 10:50:24 AM

I would try to negotiate something at least once. It'd be well within the film's reasonable bounds to show the heroes argue for a deal and Ghost be too impatient or emotionally unstable to settle for it.

I wondered if it was going with that angle, but usually if a heroic character is being portrayed as a jerk, it's given context by the other heroes voicing their offense. If all the heroes are jerks, there isn't the context to demonstrate that and it comes off as though being a jerk is simply just the default "hero".

What happens here isn't completely Protagonist-Centered Morality since ultimately the heroes do choose to help Ghost, but it does lightly run along since they only bother with it after all their own goals are fulfilled.

She did express remorse after being cured about having killed people, so I wouldn't say it's "zero". Ruthless, yeah mostly.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 16th 2018 at 10:50:21 AM

I refer to it as "zero moral compass" for the sake of the joke/synopsis. She's not evil, but the idea would be that she's far too amoral to be raising anybody.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 16th 2018 at 10:51:31 AM

Ah, got it.

Like I said, I don't mind that the stakes are lower. I just found myself constantly waiting for someone to become a serious villain. Maybe I'm conditioned by all the other superhero films.

Seriously, was anyone else expecting Janet to be secretly evil? No? Okay...

In a way I was more invested on Scott not getting caught out of the house.

Question: So, next year we have Avengers 4 and Spider-Man Far from Home. And then? Got G Vol 3 is delayed, the Black Widow movie and the Eternals movie both haven't started filming yet, and while they would be crazy to not do a Black Panther sequel, there hasn't been any word on a Doctor Strange sequel just yet.

So, what will fill the two 2020 slots? (It's a little bit odd that Marvel studios will effectively release one movie next year because the revenue of Far From Home will go completely to Sony).

They're also releasing Captain Marvel in 2019.

Edited by Galadriel on Nov 17th 2018 at 9:54:19 AM

you know, I was so in the "past Avengers 4" mind-set, I kind of forgot that Captain Marvel belongs in the next year, too. That makes actually more sense.

Something occurred to me regarding the Marvel stream shows: They are supposed to be mini-series, right? So they most likely won't be interested in establishing a lot of new characters for them. Wouldn't it make sense then to (if it fits) drop characters which are already known from the movies but are low profile and/or characters from the more watched Marvel shows into the mix? With Ao S doing the filming for the next two years now and Marvel Netflix having a schedule in flux anyway, they could easily mix and match. Provided that those characters fit into the stories they want to tell.

actually both doctor strange and the black panther sequel have been confirmed for a while now

Do you have any sort of confirmation? Because while I read that they are talking to Ryan Coogler about Black Panther 2, nothing has been confirmed at all.

here

Edited by Drakon69 on Nov 17th 2018 at 10:29:52 PM

What about Doctor Strange 2?

here

Okay, that's not really confirmation though. That's Feige saying, "We know we want to make it, we just don't know when." If it's not on the schedule, it's not confirmed.

Well at least its something

It's been confirmed that Coogler signed a deal to write/direct Black Panther 2. That was announced sometime last month.

But anything in terms of when production will actually start is still speculation.

Yeah, normally we would by now have at least an idea. But I guess they try to keep the news as much under wraps as possible...

Marvel may want to slow down a bit after Avengers 4, to take time to plan out their next direction for the franchise and think about how/if they will incorporate properties acquired from Fox. One movie per year for a couple years won't kill them.

They also have a villain lined up for Dr. Strange 2.

They really shouldn't have had Mordo do a sudden Face–Heel Turn in the stinger of the first movie. As he's not the villain in the second one, leaving him a good guy as of the start of the second one would allow them to develop his character in a more gradual and credible manner.

Based on his views in the first movie (he is disillusioned about his organization, and he considers Strange's methods dangerous), he'd play better as a Hero Antagonist, at least in the short term.

Edited by Galadriel on Nov 17th 2018 at 7:19:43 AM