Dutch Politics

Well, Britain is Britain, Netherland is Netherlands.

Also, wasn't it known that most of the euroskeptics quietly dropped the exit part because they saw how the UK is in shambles without the economic benefits of the EU? I believe they shifted their plans or so.

For now, yes. Except the scare has worn off, one of said Eurosceptics just became the largest party, and is likely to make some noise in that direction.

I think some worrying is appropriate.

I'm certainly not going to say you shouldn't worry. This is a worrying situation after all.

Assholes gaining power in general is a cause for worry.

Edited by M84 on Nov 24th 2023 at 4:52:12 AM

True, but only worry, not panic, for the moment.

Current polls: PVV 37, Groen Links-Pvd A 25, VVD 24, NSC 20.

Wilders himself seems to have been a bit surprised by this result. I guess that now that Rutte has left politics, a lot of people from his party see Wilders as the obvious successor (remember that Wilders is a former VVD member).

Edited by Redmess on Nov 23rd 2023 at 9:58:55 PM

Interesting note: at the current count, PVV would need 39 more seats for a coalition. That could potentially make PVV a minority party in their own coalition.

How so?

PVV only has 37 seats right now. That means he needs at least two other parties to form a majority coalition at 76 seats, which would give those other parties a combined 39 seats or more. That means those other parties could overrule the PVV in a vote, especially in combination with opposition parties.

The question is whether the cordon sanitaire will hold, and if it does, whether there'll be a huge-tent coalition of Everyone Who Is Not A Freaking Nazi.

PVV is the biggest party in the House right now, but they still would need the consent of both VVD and NSC to govern. GL/PVDA is obviously out, and notably gained seats this election. So we could also see GL/PVDA/VVD/NSC and either D66 (assuming their crash-and-burn doesn't disqualify them from the coalition) or BBB (assuming a big enough bribe to the farmers). Or theoretically SP and DENK, but I don't see VVD or NSC going for that one.

Edited by Ramidel on Nov 23rd 2023 at 12:44:17 AM

It's why I mentioned it on the previous page, if Wilders is willing to compromise on most of his positions if he wants to govern with the PVV and NSC.

Also, while shocking, there's at least the silver lining that GL/PVDA came 2nd while PVV and NSC got third and fourth place respectively, which shows that they can be formidable force in the future if they can hold it.

Edited by LoneCourier0 on Nov 23rd 2023 at 11:39:27 AM

Oh, absolutely, GL/PVDA did very well, and I'm very happy with that result, at least. They are in a good position for the opposition, if anything (and being in the opposition has its own value, too).

And not all of Wilders' policies are bad, at least. He does want healthcare reform (including more money), for instance, which the VVD opposes. There are some points of agreement with the left wing there, though the migrant stance is very likely a dealbreaker for a coalition.

Ugh, PVV got the most votes? Well at least GL / Pvd A did well.

Have VVD or NSC said anything about whether they would form a coalition with the PVV?

I wouldn't worry about a nexit btw. Firstly, it is not very popular with the people, especially after we saw the mess that was Brexit. While people here love to complain about the EU, most people don't actually want to leave, since that would mean switching currency, hard borders with Germany and Belgium and be bad for trade.

Secondly, potential coalition partners like VVD and NSC don't want to leave the EU.

Edited by Unoriginalusername3 on Nov 23rd 2023 at 1:46:10 PM

Well, it would depend on how much the PVV would be willing to compromise their more radical stances, especially on migration.

I think they'll have to anyway, they can't just get around EU laws. It's not like the US where the government basically gets to do whatever it likes internationally.

Dutch politics urgently needs a reform if a party of one guy (Girt Wilders) can win an election

He is not a party of one guy, his party just doesn't have any party members. This is what allows one man parties, which aren't bad perse.

Another way in which Wilders is very much not Trump or Republican: his economic policies are very leftist, to the point that the business world is very worried about this election.

Really?

I also heard that he's also pro-abortion and pro-LGBT rights.

Like, he reads like some twisted hybrid of ideals.

Edited by LoneCourier0 on Nov 23rd 2023 at 6:47:42 PM

All I know is that he described Islam as “an ideology of a retarded culture” and called Moroccans “scum”, he thinks climate action is a new form of tyranny by The Hague, he admires Vladimir Putin, he thinks that the sanctions against him were an example of  “hysterical Russophobia”, and he has vowed to stop sending weapons to Ukraine.

I already don't like him .

Edited by jawal on Nov 23rd 2023 at 6:57:26 PM

So, what do you think how will the NSC and VVD deal with him? Think Wilders will have to compromise so he can get on their good side?

Well, every party has to compromise after an election to form a government. That's just how things work here. The real question is "how much?", and yeah, the likely question is "quite a lot".

Oh, you definitely shouldn't like him, but it is a bit more complicated than "all his policies are right wing conservative". I know I talked about this a long while ago too, but it is very much possible to be socially progressive and economically conservative, or vice versa. Wilders is of the latter type.

Which is good, in a way: it means a way in for a more progressive coalition, which then can moderate his more odious policies.

NSC and VVD have not yet committed to whether or not they will have any dealings with PVV, though I don't expect that will last too long. They will hold their noses and work with him eventually, provided PVV is willing to water down its programme.

Edited by Redmess on Nov 23rd 2023 at 7:15:27 PM

Yeah the PVV is more left wing economically.

For example they want to abolish the "Eigen Risico", include the dentist in the basic insurance, lower rent for social housing and increase rent subsidies.

However they are super right wing socially and also awful when it comes to fighting climate change and protecting nature.

That just sounds like a generic post-Soviet socdem party in the former Eastern Bloc.

And honestly, I agree with most of those economic points, especially the one about dentists, that should really be in the base healthcare package.

Eigen risico is the amount you pay before your healthcare provider starts covering the costs. People with health issues basically have to pay this all the time, which gets expensive. Getting rid of it would mean everyone pays a little more per month (mandatory), but also gets immediate coverage.

This is also why calling him a Nazi is a bit silly. He's just not right wing enough for that.

Edited by Redmess on Nov 23rd 2023 at 7:30:59 PM

Water down in which way though? There’s a risk that he trades away stuff like more healthcare funding to get coalition partners rather than trading away his support for Russia.

Edited by Silasw on Nov 23rd 2023 at 6:34:29 PM