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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Only if we fail to pass it through another means. If the stimulus comes out without it but then we manage to push through a bill (somehow; unlikely due to filibuster) or get it in place through second reconciliation, then the anger will fade.
Voters will only remember the outrage over the Dems failing to pass the minimum wage increase if we enter 2022 and it still hasn't happened yet. At which point, still being angry about it will be a valid position to hold.
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At the very least, putting forward the legislation and having it fail to the filibuster will get people angry at the right people for stymying the effort.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
I think people are going to remember the checks. Too bad its still a tiny lump compared to the costs in a 10% unemployment economy.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 27th 2021 at 6:59:07 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
I've seen people complaining about the Dems trying to get around the filibuster by implementing tax incentives to pressure companies into raising their wages. I get that there're simpler ways to go about it, but if the end result is the same then... ?
Because something-something Free Market - though I suppose that would be for just raising the Federal minimum wage anyway.
Of course, the more cogent argument would be that not every company would opt to do it, simply because it would cost more up-front than just paying the fines, as we've seen with a bunch of food production companies figuring it's cheaper to do that than ensure workplace safety.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
It's very much a worse minimum wage, tax incentives are no replacement for across-the-board minimum wage.
That's not to say they're at fault, it can't be helped that a proper minimum wage isn't passable right now.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 27th 2021 at 7:20:20 AM
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Figure of Hourai
I do wonder why ordinary people—not politicians, not corporations—object so strongly to a higher minimum wage out of some existential terror for all small businesses. Do they think people working full time should be unable to earn enough to stay alive?
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Sure its not the better option, but as long as Joe Manchin prevents the filibuster from being nuked, it's the only viable one. And better than no minimum wage increase
I'm very certain these objections are the result of astroturfing
Edited by Xopher001 on Feb 27th 2021 at 5:39:51 PM
I think in this framework the thought process is that workers owe business owners more for employing them, than the workers are owed for doing the work in the first place.
You could also probably add in a bit of "well, if the business goes under, they lose their ability to live anyway."
Edited by LSBK on Feb 27th 2021 at 10:39:48 AM
Kyrsten Sinema has also stated that she absolutely will not vote for a repeal of the filibuster.
https://newrepublic.com/article/161484/kyrsten-sinema-filibuster-self-defeating-nonsensical-defense
The main issue I see with the tax penalty approach is that the rich companies most likely to resort to slashing wages to keep profits up, are also the same companies that can most afford to suck up the tax penalty anyway, so it ends up being a regressive tax policy.
That Guy
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/26/politics/fbi-identify-suspect-sicknick/index.html
Looks like the FBI may've tracked down the insurrectionist asshole who bashed Officer Sicknick's head in. It may not have been a Fire Extinguisher, though.
Not that that narrows it down. Plenty of stuff those assholes were carrying that could've inflicted that kind of blunt force trauma.
A lethal reaction to bear spray is also being looked into.
Edited by Pendrake on Feb 27th 2021 at 8:14:36 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
Would that it were so simple.
Everything LSBK said, also there's a general misconception that all wages are scaled to the minimum — so a guy who is making 30/hr will demand 60/hr because the minimum has been doubled. Ergo, the small businesses won't have enough capital to sustain themselves because they have more labor that needs to be done than employees who would work at an affordable price. The labor market contracts, the number of small businesses shrinks, and everyone has less money to spend, which sends the economy into a tailspin. It's an argument that makes sense in isolation, which is why it's so pernicious and it dovetails really nicely with the preliminary economics 101 knowledge that most people innately have. The issue is that small businesses aren't the guys with huge amounts of minimum wage laborers. Those are chain businesses and corporations.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
It's a combination of that and "But this'll spike inflation!" - but I can't say I've seen any causative links between the two.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
That Guy
Well, the Republicans are known for their "Appeal to Ignorance" arguments.
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
In regards to the $15 minimum wage, it's also worth keeping in mind that an overwhelming majority of the public supports it.
So most normal Americans recognize its value and are not swayed by disingenuous right-wing arguments.
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
That Guy
I never said they were good arguments. 
Ah, I realize it was unclear but I was responding to the general discussion instead of any particular post.
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Figure of Hourai
The most concentrated blocs of opposition are wealthy Republicans and the conservatives. Shocked, I tell you.
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Redmess
What I don't get is why Griddy is even putting its foot down on this. Don't they have PR people telling them not to double down on this absolute PR disaster? Do they want to go bankrupt as their customers dump them en masse?
This is not just greedy, it's stupid.
Edited by Redmess on Feb 27th 2021 at 8:34:19 PM
Optimism is a duty.
My stepdad is against the minimum wage increase for a weird reason. He says that the minimum wage was made for kids working during the summer to pay for college/stuff for themselves and that they would start losing jobs at local and small businesses because those businesses couldn't support paying them anymore.
My opinion is fuck that nonsense, kids could use $15/hour to make paying for college a bit less expensive.
“We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.” - Lewis Carroll
Also, it's mostly adults working full-time at minimum wage jobs, so fuck that argument.
It's also weird because Massachusetts increased the minimum wage to $13.50/hour this year. Don't know why $1.50 more would hurt.
“We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.” - Lewis Carroll
The only thing I think people are going to remember is the failure on the minimum wage.
The media made such a big deal on it.
Edited by Memers on Feb 27th 2021 at 5:54:49 AM