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2020 mod notice:

Because this thread is a central OTC hub for lots of information and news, it is not likely to be locked.

However, for the same reason, the amount of panicking and fearmongering has more potential impact here.

If you are posting unsourced, inflammatory statements, or responding with "we're all doomed!", that is obviously and clearly damaging the quality of this thread. And you will be warned, your post mod-edited, thumped, or suspended if necessary.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Feb 6th 2020 at 4:18:00 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
May 22nd 2020 at 5:24:45 PM

With the regularity it can happen, it sometimes seems to combine two factors, depending on the poster: 1) a boy-who-cried-wolf effect, from responding immediately to anything questionable; 2) getting offended on behalf of other people (this is the part that depends on the person). Like... often, criticism is levied or an apology demanded before seeing if anyone actually cares (or cares for the reasons we suppose).

Really. So because it happens often then it must be unjustified?

Dude, even the people who like Biden admit that he has a problem with gaffes.

Maybe it happens often for a *good reason*.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on May 22nd 2020 at 5:28:31 AM

May 22nd 2020 at 5:25:58 PM

I’ve seen claims that some patients have continued to believe even after they’ve been diagnosed with it.

His last words were "It was a hoax."

RainehDaze METANOIA from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
METANOIA
May 22nd 2020 at 5:28:26 PM

[up]x5 Huh? I'm not complaining about specific posters, just noting that some posters obviously aren't getting offended on the behalf of someone else but on their own.

Create a history, with the light God could not know
Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
May 22nd 2020 at 5:28:43 PM

Generally speaking, people hold politicians and public influential figures to a higher standard because well, they're influential and what they say carries weight. This can sometimes be unfairly applied yes, but I don't think criticizing Biden for a poorly-worded statement is hyperbolic - especially since he does that a lot.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
May 22nd 2020 at 5:32:12 PM

Actual Black person putting it into perspective:

Here’s a question. Did Joe Biden’s #You Aint Black remarks change your likelihood to vote against an incompetent racist corrupt authoritarian conspiracy theorist madman named Donald?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure a lot of accounts tweeting about it are white people who would turn and defend Trump calling actual Nazis very fine people or just bots spreading divisive rhetoric, tbh.

[down] I really hadn't commented on it before. I just saw it, and thought it put it into perspective a bit.

Edited by megaeliz on May 22nd 2020 at 8:43:41 AM

Parable So I Am Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
So I Am
May 22nd 2020 at 5:37:36 PM

Not that I don't agree with the initial sentiment, but I thought we frowned upon using random Twitter posts to back up our points?

And I expect Trump to be a garbage racist. I respect Biden and thus hold him to a higher standard.

Nevermind, responded to deleted line.

Edited by Parable on May 22nd 2020 at 5:38:36 AM

Nevertheless, you must persist.
May 22nd 2020 at 6:00:08 PM

[up] It's just, it's really easy fall into manufactured outrage or false equivalency, on a community's behalf, without actually consulting the people you are trying to advocate for (to borrow a phrase from the disability community "Nothing about us, without us"), which is why it is so important to listen to what actual black people have to say in this case.

Biden's #You Aint Black comments weren't great but I won't play the GOP's false equivalency game.

Everyone knows there’s no comparison between Trump & Biden when it comes to racism, but GOP will try and equate them to depress black turnout. Just like they did with Clinton.

Trump just praised well-known eugenist and anti-Semite Ford as having “good bloodlines."

He’s called black NFL players sons of bitches, called African countries shitholes, still won’t admit the exonerated 5 are innocent, and called neo-Nazis very fine people.

No comparison.

Obviously Biden was not the right messenger for this but @Toure is really spot on here.

Black people like @Senator Tim Scott, @Real Candace O, and @kanyewest who support Trump do not care about the black community, otherwise, they wouldn't support a white supremacist administration.

Bottom line: As a black man currently watching white Republicans feigning outrage over Biden's #You Aint Black comments, I'll tell you I'm far more outraged by a man who has pushed blatant white supremacist policies as president, was discriminatory in business, and racist in life.

You know why Biden has high support? Older black voters understand you have to work with imperfect allies to create change. They know Trump is a cancer that needs to be removed right now.

I have absolutely no patience for black people pretending Trump is even a feasible option.

Who do we pick? The racist authoritarian conspiracy theorist who doesn't believe in climate change and pushes policies that disproportionately harm minorities or Biden, who has an inclusive agenda that actually helps average Americans? Tough choice.

Ok, I'm off this for now. [1]

Trump is super racist. His campaign & his appeal is built on the perpetuation of white supremacy & white privilege. He stokes white fragility. When a Black person supports him I question their relationship to their Blackness and the community. This is what Biden was alluding too. [2]

Edited by megaeliz on May 22nd 2020 at 9:13:20 AM

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
May 22nd 2020 at 6:04:08 PM

Blacks who support Trump are still black. They're also idiots. At best.

Trump delenda est
ScubaWolf from South Carolina
May 22nd 2020 at 6:11:22 PM

@Biden's comments: Pretty much people got on the case because it was worded very badly. There were a multitude of ways to say it, and he chose to say it in that manner. It was incredibly stupid (and offensive) to say it like that, and the apology was needed.

May 22nd 2020 at 6:16:25 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
May 22nd 2020 at 6:16:37 PM

[up][up][up] We know, doesn't stop the side-eyeing and the questioning of their sanity.

Edited by Cross on May 22nd 2020 at 9:16:55 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Resident CTR:NF Master from Wumpa Island Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Resident CTR:NF Master
May 22nd 2020 at 6:17:48 PM

[up][up]That’s a heavy accusation to make, considering at this point, it’s Biden or Trump.

I need to think of a better signature.
May 22nd 2020 at 6:18:16 PM

I.... am not sure thats the case, some people dislike Bernie for reasons just beyond disliking Bernie....

While I am not Fighteer, I know I would have maintained my suport for the comment if he said it, if any thing I would be praising him more for actualy giving a damn about race beyond just economic policy for once.

May 22nd 2020 at 6:20:43 PM

[up][up]What does that have to do with anything?

Edited by Beatles1963 on May 22nd 2020 at 6:24:23 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Resident CTR:NF Master from Wumpa Island Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Resident CTR:NF Master
May 22nd 2020 at 6:23:02 PM

[up]Because at this point, it’s time to support the blue candidate no matter who it ended up being?

I need to think of a better signature.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
May 22nd 2020 at 6:25:35 PM

You know I feel like people probably shouldn’t make strait up personal attacks against other posters based on no actual facts.

I get that it’s fun to yell at mods because they try to be professional and not yell back as much as they’d like, but that doesn’t make it okay.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
unknowing from somewhere..
May 22nd 2020 at 6:27:27 PM

So biden show that no matter how you slice it, he is still putting his foot on his mouth?

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
May 22nd 2020 at 6:30:09 PM

[up][up][up]How does acknowledging that Joe Biden made a gaffe = I refuse to vote for him?

Edited by Beatles1963 on May 22nd 2020 at 6:30:42 AM

Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
May 22nd 2020 at 6:30:10 PM

[up][up]To an extent yes but judging from the reactions I'm seeing most actual black people seem to think it was a poorly worded comment with bad implications but it had some truth to it, and Biden's actual platform will genuinely help them. Certainly nothing comparable to anything Trump has said or done.

Edited by Draghinazzo on May 22nd 2020 at 9:30:27 AM

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
ShinyCottonCandy Resident CTR:NF Master from Wumpa Island Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Resident CTR:NF Master
May 22nd 2020 at 6:33:18 PM

[up][up]I’m more talking about the accusation toward Fighteer. I may not have known him for long, but I know he knows when jumping on a candidate is just stirring up trouble, regardless of who the candidate ended up being.

I need to think of a better signature.
May 22nd 2020 at 6:42:20 PM

There’s a difference between “I am not going to talk shit about our candidate” and “I am going to double-down on what our candidate is going to immediately apologize for after he said it”.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
May 22nd 2020 at 6:42:43 PM

Ninety percent of this is the media — in particular the social media 'verse — searching for controversy. It is a destructive amplification loop that creates flashes of outrage via the "trending" mechanism that quickly fade, serving two purposes:

  1. Giving the impression that people are ready to turn on anyone, no matter how beloved, for a single slip of the tongue or badly worded statement.
  2. Hiding real problems in the haystack of outrage.

I am willing to give most people the benefit of the doubt, an unpopular position I realize but one I am sticking to no matter what criticism I receive. Indeed, the criticism comes across to me as more of the above: the outrage amplification machine.

"Let's create the worst possible interpretations of what anyone says so we can make a big show out of being 'woke' for our social media feeds and collect a bunch of likes to boost our egos. Oh, and block anyone who disagrees, further insulating ourselves inside our bubbles."


Edited to add: You may notice, if you go back through my posts, that I rarely criticized Sanders for his moment-by-moment statements. I don't care about that, really. What I criticized him for were his superficial platform positions and his appeals to populist outrage, both opinions I still hold. These are based on things he has repeatedly said and done for years, not a single thing he said once at a town hall.

I remind everyone that I also said I would still vote for him if he won the primary; in fact, I would do so enthusiastically and without hesitation.

I'm not a huge fan of Biden, really. I preferred Warren, and still do. That said, Biden is now the candidate and it's him or Trump. There's not much of a choice here.

Edited by Fighteer on May 22nd 2020 at 9:54:33 AM

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May 22nd 2020 at 7:02:31 PM

OK, I will acknowledge that my assumption is mostly based on how extremely critical you are towards Bernie Sanders. I apologize. But seriously, Fighteer? You don’t see anything wrong with Biden saying “You Ain’t Black” to Charlamagne tha God?

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
May 22nd 2020 at 7:06:44 PM

I've already given my interpretation of that statement. I agree that it was badly worded, but at this point that's kind of standard for Biden. He has been documented to have a speech impediment and a bad case of foot-in-mouth-itis, and so it seems really disingenuous to take any particular one of those and try to pin it down as some kind of horrible betrayal of his promises.

His statement was also true in many ways, especially if you adopt the "white people can afford to vote for Trump; black people cannot" interpretation.

What I care about are his actions and his policy beliefs. Anyway, I'm not going to presume to get mad on behalf of black people. Isn't that just as patronizing?

Edited by Fighteer on May 22nd 2020 at 10:11:56 AM

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AzurePaladin The Part-Time Lurker from Hakurei Shrine Relationship Status: Mu
The Part-Time Lurker
May 22nd 2020 at 7:17:16 PM

On Biden:

Disagree with someone all you like, think they're fools or useful idiots or morally bankrupt. But never...never try to dictate people's identity to them. EVER.

She/Her Pronouns

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