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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
She's not even old enough to run for president.
AOC's not presidential material today, no. But give her twenty years in office to season her and give her political savvy, and yes. I don't agree with her, but she's got charisma.
Edited by Soban on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:25:26 AM
Oh, bother.
They're not talking about the 2020 election obviously. Still, it's premature.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Getting flashbacks of Kamala Harris, before her less than stellar history started getting more attention.
It's safer to say that whomever AOC backs up will have a notable advantage, rather than assume that she'd run for Prez herself.
Or Bernie, before the same.
Edited by Imca on Feb 19th 2019 at 7:35:25 AM
@Azure: No, we live under capitalism, and thus power lies in the hands of businessmen and corporations. Under feudalism, it would be the king and the nobility, and under socialism it would be the politburo and the apparatchiks. Such hierarchies are an inescapable part of the human condition, and there exists no political route to fundamentally changing that; all previous attempts have at best spread suffering around more equally than before. The best I believe we can do is what we can to maintain societal stability, advance improvements around the margin where we can, and work towards advancing the one domain of human endevour which actually is capable of genuinely altering the human condition, namely science and technology.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:41:47 AM
That kind of defeatist nonsense is why corporations are allowed to get away with buying candidates. It's not something we have to accept. It only is the way it is now because of decades of efforts to make it so.
She/Her Pronouns
Well, this is a rather grim portant of the world. A good thing, then, that its wrong.
Firstly: You know as well as I do that 'Socialism' is not enough a monolith to make it a synonym for the Soviet Model. Second, no. We don't need to have humanity stratified, we can change things for the better. Look to the Social Democracies as a good first step. Stability is only good when in conjunction with Justice, stability alone is a negative peace, and should be fought against. And because a truly equal society was not created before, does not mean its not possible. We are not bound to repeat the same mistakes. That's part of what science is, after all. Collect data and try again.
We can still make the world a better place. But the first step is to believe that its at least possible. If we give up now, all is lost.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:45:50 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
She/her
Jesus Christ, dude.
Edited by wisewillow on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:43:53 AM
Oh, bother.
Yeah, we're not exactly living in Shadowrun or Blade Runner or Deus Ex yet.
Edited by M84 on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:44:45 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Asgore Adopts Noelle
Ibraheem Samirah (D) has won the Special Election for Virginia's House of Delegates 86th Seat, leaving the Virginia HoD with a Republican Majority of 51-49. However, he actually under-performed the 2017/2018 Midterm Elections. This is probably because of the Northam and Fairfax Scandals, or because of Anti-Semetic Comments he had made.
Still, we should be cautious about this Special Election's results, especially if it becomes a trend that Democrats start underperforming in Special Elections, and the 2019 Midterms in Virginia, New Jersey and Louisiana.
Edited by DingoWalley1 on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:55:51 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't AOC's rise to prominence almost, if not entirely completely grassroots? Kinda shoots that whole Metal Gear speech up there in the foot if so.
It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.
Man, you sure changed tunes from 'It's bad because it cost NY tax revenue, but people applause it because they believe that corporations are evil' to 'it's bad because it might piss off Amazon, who are vengeful and all powerful' quickly there, Cap. Like, not only are those completely separate arguments, but the second undermines the credibility of the first.
Edited by Gilphon on Feb 19th 2019 at 10:57:40 AM
They actually aren't incompatible; it costs NYC long term tax revenue, pisses off a potentially useful private sector ally, (who will remember this when any of the people involved run for higher office and donate to their opponents) and is kind of futile since some Amazon is still going to get their multi-billion dollar subsidies, just in a different municipality. Had they actually managed to renegotiate the deal on more favorable terms, I'd be applauding them, but they weren't even interesting in talking with Amazon.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:00:43 AM
She/Her Pronouns
On the flip side, the land can now still be used for affordable housing, and gentrification was fought off. I'd say that counts as a win, extra tax dollars or no. And I hope whatever city is chosen next also receives a backlash, and so on until Amazon comes up with an idea that actually helps the residents of the area.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:01:09 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
I suppose what I'm saying is that you're doing to opposite of selling the idea that Amazon isn't evil.
They aren't evil, they're self-serving. Evil can't be negotiated with, selfish can be.
@M84: Cyberpunk futures like that vastly overestimate how cohesive global elites are; they posit an Omniscient Council of Vagueness behind the curtain directing things when the reality is more like dozens of people fighting over a TV remote. But you can get those fractious groups to act in unison if you threaten to unplug the television, to extend that metaphor.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:07:43 AM
She/Her Pronouns
Only as a deal with the devil.
And honestly, Corporate greed is evil all into its own.
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
A perspective that I haven't seen discussed on this thread (though not even I read every page of it) is whether AOC actually wants to run for president one day.
Of course, no one knows what her feelings on it will be in the ensuing years.
I liked it better when Questionable Casting was called WTH Casting Agency
Considering evil politician jokes are nearly as common as evil lawyer jokes, you aren't wrong there.
But, to be a bit less uber cynical and confrontational, it was a mistake for the NYC reps to go whole hog with the firebrand anti-corporate rhetoric and flat out refuse to talk with Amazon. They probably could have gotten something out of it for their constituents, and NYC was in a much better position to negotiate with Amazon than Podunk Alabama or whatever second rate city gets HQ2 now.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:14:00 AM
She/her
Selfish absolutely can be evil. Paying starvation wages while jacking up executive pay is evil. Denying employees stability and healthcare is evil. Taking over companies only to run them into the ground and exit with the profits (see: hedge funds) is evil. Jacking up prices for insulin is evil.
They didn’t refuse to talk to Amazon; what are you talking about? They asked for more info and made some demands, and Amazon left in a huff because they DARED push back.
Edited by wisewillow on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:15:42 AM
She/Her Pronouns
Well, Amazon had refused to change their policies on Unionization and such. So its unlikely a more equitable deal would have been reached.
Eventually, Amazon would have threatened to take it elsewhere (Did they already? I don't remember). And take it elsewhere they shall, hopefully to see the same resistance.
Edit: This too.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:16:56 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Rent seeking behavior is bad, and most people not immediately benefiting from such behaviors can agree to that. The trouble is when you try to take on the entire private sector at once, which is what I think is going to doom efforts like the GND.
As for that comment about meetings, I distinctly remember a story about some of the NYC city council refusing to meet with company reps, but I can't find it so it might not have been true.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:19:31 AM
She/her
“Hey, companies, get ready to pull your weight in saving our planet because you helped cause this mess.”
Wow, yeah, the private sector will just be murdered to death instantly.
