First thing's first: KEEP. THIS. SHIT. CIVIL. If you can't talk about race without resorting to childish insults and rude generalizations or getting angry at people who don't see it your way, leave the thread.
With that said, I bring you to what can hopefully be the general thread about race.
First, a few starter questions.
- How, if at all, do you feel your race affects your everyday life?
- Do you believe that white people (or whatever the majority race in your area is) receive privileges simply because of the color of their skin. How much?
- Do you believe minorities are discriminated against for the same reason? How much?
- Do you believe that assimilation of cultures is better than people trying to keep their own?
- Affirmative Action. Yea, Nay? Why or why not?
Also, a personal question from me.
- Why (in my experience, not trying to generalize) do white people often try to insist that they aren't white? I can't count the number of times I've heard "I'm not white, I'm 1/4th English, 1/4th German, 1/4th Scandinavian 1/8th Cherokee, and 1/8th Russian," as though 4 of 5 of those things aren't considered "white" by the masses. Is it because you have pride for your ancestry, or an attempt to try and differentiate yourself from all those "other" white people? Or something else altogether?
edited 30th May '11 9:16:04 PM by Wulf
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Hey, GOP also offers a copious amount of f*ck the poor and the sick. Sure, it tends to get tangled up with the racism, but not always.
Oh, bother.
At this point what else can be said but <points at sig>
Hopefully they can still manage to find a way to get registered to vote.
Edited by M84 on Oct 16th 2018 at 4:10:49 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
As someone not American and not too informed on this, I was wondering if I could get some views on this from American people of color on this and the whole thing of white people claiming non-white ancestry.
It's kind of a running joke here - there's a gag in American Dragon: Jake Long where Jake's very white dad claims to be 1/64th Cherokee (I think, it's been a while) - and for a time I thought of it as white people trying to show off that they're not completely white (read:lame).
If Warren does have Native American ancestry, though...
Actually I just remembered an English professor from some semesters who claimed to be part Native.
Edited by PhysicalStamina on Oct 16th 2018 at 7:32:57 AM
It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.
Just found this statement put out by the Cherokee Nation:
Hoskin accused Warren of “undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage.”
He argued that DNA tests fail to distinguish whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America and noted that tribes set their own legal requirements for citizenship.
Warren claims to have Cherokee blood. The Cherokee Nation requires a person to have at least one ancestor listed on a federal census used to allot Cherokee land in the early 1900s known as the Dawes Final Rolls.
Edited by windleopard on Oct 16th 2018 at 4:41:51 AM
Well never mind then
It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.
Bosnia IIRC has ended the elections for president.
The legacy left by Dayton is fucked up. The current leader is a Bosnian Serb with strong support for nationalists in his group.
I’m not sure why Warren even bothered releasing those results.
They should have sent a poet.
To prove Trump wrong?
Oh, bother.
Well, Trump did promise to donate a million bucks to charity if she could prove her ancestry. She probably did it to catch him in a lie when he predictably welched on it. Yes, Trump pulled a Jack Thompson.
Edited by M84 on Oct 16th 2018 at 7:54:57 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Never in a million years would Trump ever admit he was wrong about something, and neither he nor his supporters really care when he’s caught in a lie.
Plus, anyone with two brain cells to rub together could have predicted that they’d all just call the test fake.
Anyone shaking their head at this was already shaking their head at Trump. Anyone who supported Trump already wasn’t going to have their mind changed by this. It comes off like a weak publicity stunt for a 2020 run.
They should have sent a poet.
Oh, bother.
Of course, if she didn't do it, they would all just take it as proof she's a liar. And maybe Democratic base voters or liberal leaning voters might wonder why she wasn't getting the test either — those that were even aware this was a thing anyway.
As it is, all Warren did was confirm to people on her side, and maybe some on the fence, that she wasn't lying about this.
Edited by M84 on Oct 16th 2018 at 8:08:24 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
I agree it’s sort of a “damned if you do damned if you don’t” situation, but the optics are still that of a stunt.
Personally, I think she should have just called Trump on his bluff from the start. Republicans were going to call her a liar no matter what she did, and I find it hard to believe any left-leaning voters were on the fence about her because of this one thing.
They should have sent a poet.
Between his "gently" comment, and then stating he'll only accept the results if he does the test himself, the man sure knows how to make a DNA test sound like rape.
Cringe but free
It is a double-bind situation - there were demands for DNA tests from Cherokee groups as well before this. She messed up by making the ancestry claim in the first place, and she had to own up to it somewhere down the line. Doing publicity for a Native American social project seems like an alright way to do it - sooner is better than later.
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)
Jupiterian Local
For what it's worth, as far as I know, Warren has never claimed membership in the Cherokee Nation, only that she had Cherokee ancestry. This is roughly the difference between saying "I'm Irish" in the sense of "I am of Irish descent" and "I'm Irish" in the sense of "I am a citizen of the Republic of Ireland". If the Irish government says "you're not an Irish citizen and are not eligible for Irish citizenship", that proves nothing about whether your ancestors originated from Ireland.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Then why bring it up?
The amount of Native American ancestry she has is completely negligible, there is zero reason for her to ever talk about it or make any public claims. You don't see me talking about my Spanish ancestry just because my Great-Grandfather was from Spain, because it's completely irrelevant and she has even less connection to her 'ancestry' then I do!
It's just pointless and entirely on her.
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Regardless of her intentions the way she's been going about this is just bad optics. Definitely a big mistake by her IMO.
If I recall this all started because of her listing herself as being of Native American descent back at Harvard, which she claims was in order to meet other people like her and otherwise went by uncommented on until right-wingers started making a hullabaloo about it.
As I said it's her fault, she had no reason to list herself as Native American descent when her connection is as ephemeral as possible.
The Right made use of it because they aren't going to pointlessly handicap themselves when it's such useful ammunition.
All of this could be avoided if she hadn't decided to connect herself to an ancestry that she has no practical connection to.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 16th 2018 at 11:16:09 AM
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
A procrastination in of itself
Why can’t she connect herself to something that she has distant roots to? I mean not to get all ignorant foreigner here but isn’t that what you guys do over there? You take a tiny bit of your family background and make it best case into a small thing you want to explore (like this case) and often into some huge thing.
Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Hell even the “African” in African American is based vast generations back.
It just seems weird that now all of a sudden you guys are policing who claims distant cultural roots and how much blood they must have to claim said roots.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
We aren't a hive mind, I have always disliked that and thus the fact that other people do something I dislike has zero bearing on my argument.
Furthermore, the difference is that being African-American has massive amounts of impact on one's life while having some slight Native American ancestry eight generations back has zero relevance. To associate being African American with the people who call themselves "Irish-American" is frankly deeply unfortunate.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 16th 2018 at 12:40:57 PM
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
For a lot of the GOP voter base, the appeal of the GOP is that they're the party that is for "real" Americans.
They're the people who vote for Trump to stick it to the Latino family in the neighborhood.
They're the people who vote for Trump because he supports police brutality when directed against black people.
They're the people who vote for Trump because they want to ban Muslims.
I remember Paul Krugman writing an op-ed in which he claimed that the GOP has nothing to offer but racism.
Disgusted, but not surprised