Metal Gear/ Metal Gear Solid

And that was part of a bigger plot by the PATRIOTS to prove they could control people and large scale events.

Or it was a VR Simulation. Ehh.

As for Big Boss's politics, he clearly states he wants a forever war in his fight with Snake. Create a war, help the victims, train them to become soldiers and then repeat.

There is a reason why there are so many orphans in Zanzibar land. After all, what would a nation of Soldiers do?

Honestly, i'd argue Big Boss is far more insane than Raiden ever could be. Hell, Raiden came out of MGS 2 pretty well i'd say, while MGS 3 broke Naked Snake.

And do notice the similarities in each game.

@R Alexa21th Liquid Snake addresses this point far better, he basically says after the wars are done, Soldiers are thrown away and losing their place in the world while during war time, Soldiers are treated like a commodity and respected. Perhaps he's nostalgic, as he claims during the Cold War, people needed men like Big Boss despite one of the greatest soldiers getting reduced to a scapegoat.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 10th 2020 at 8:14:10 AM

But was that him, or his phantom. :3

It's his speech in Metal Gear 2, so it's from the words of Big Boss himself.

Hell the only people who claim he doesn't want to make forever war are Eva and the Cult of Big Boss.

It's part of the SENSE theme in that once a person is dead, their ideals and beliefs are free to be misinterpreted by the living, which fuels the conflict between Zero and Big Boss over what they think The Boss would have wanted.

And Big Boss's upswing in popularity during 4 which pisses of Snake so much.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 10th 2020 at 8:58:47 AM

Theres also a stark difference between Big Boss's goals in, say, Peace Walker and his goals in MG 2. A lot of stuff happens between those two points.

Yeah Phantom Pain was supposed to show how he goes from Peace Walker to MG 2.

But Whoops. Here have a meta message that secretly says you suck.

Its been a very hot minute since I've played MG 2, but my interpretation of his line about training the orphans to become soldiers for the wars of tomorrow was that he had a more cynical view that wars would never truly end, versus him specifically desiring to kickstart a permanent thing.

Like, the kids in question at Zanzibar Land were the same orphans and refugees that NATO was perfectly content to glass along with the rest of Outer Heaven since no nation other than Big Boss' was actually willing to shoulder the responsibility of taking them in. Pretty fucked that he pre-decided they would become career soldiers, but they didn't really show any hostility to David so it seems he was at least willing to wait until they were adults to start militarizing them.

Its fun to joke like we used to about the end of Peace Walker being him taking the Boss AI/ghosts' decision to not nuke the world as a personal betrayal, but what he actually felt betrayed by was her decision to give up the gun altogether. He had become so thoroughly dependent on war to function by that point that he saw her decision for peace as turning her back on him, when she was the one who raised him to be the soldier he is in the first place.

Yeah Big Boss became a demon by... Ocelot and Zero taking it upon themselves to do all the actual real shitty stuff while he was still in a coma and then giving him no choice but to go through with the plan they already concocted and set in motion.

Edited by TheAirman on Aug 10th 2020 at 12:55:19 PM

Are we talking his coma in MGSV or after Snake burned him alive in MG 2?

I was really annoyed how cheated i felt after playing MGSV. Like Big Boss's journey to the villain was one of the things i was super invested in as a long time fan. So for the writers to pander to fanboys who want him to be a heroic cool badass was painful.

Also don't forget that Big Boss was holding the entire world hostage by stealing OLIX. It's clear who would be starting the wars.

But speaking of Peacewalker, i do genuinely believe in the emotions that Big Boss felt after the Boss AI killed herself.

He had to relive that traumatic moment again, so if he started hating her, he'd feel less pain.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 10th 2020 at 10:35:12 AM

MGSV coma. By the time he woke up from that in early 84, Zero and Ocelot had already long since begun the process of molding the Medic into Venom Snake. Hell, as early as 77 when Zero came to visit he needed the doctors to identify which one was actually John.

If he had actually had any agency in plan to use the Medic it would've been better (not as "good" as actually playing his fall ourselves, but better), but instead he woke up and got railroaded to the program.

Good point on OLIX though, I honestly forgot about that bit.

Edited by TheAirman on Aug 10th 2020 at 12:57:29 PM

Yeah, the retcons of MGSV muddles up the plot even more. And if you feel bad about forgetting about OLIX, don't be, the series forgot about it too. Like why the fuck is Dr. Madnar still alive and the one who made Raiden's body?

There are TWO times where Big Boss ended up in a coma for a decade.

(I'm still convinced Kojima wrote that 9 year coma was so he didn't have to write more Big Boss Adventures. Boy did that work too well.)

Like i wanted to see Big Boss's fall and he did technically. He used a soldier as a disposable pawn in complete betrayal for what he stood even if he was railroaded into it for some stupid reason.

Speaking of Ocelot, i'm still disappointed that he's the most chill of all of Venom's comrades. Miller's the guy who goes on insane rants while Ocelot is the guy trying to get him to chill.

BOO!

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 10th 2020 at 11:04:02 AM

I wouldn't let BB off the hook for that. Sure the medic had been turned into Venom, but BB could have refused to go along with it when he woke up.

Yeah when motherfucking Ocelot comes off as the only sane man and voice of reason, there's something seriously wrong going on.

And yeah I don't completely let him off the hook for Medic, as you said he could've still refused (and did have to justify it to himself that Medic would just be saving his life yet again and was skilled enough to do the job), but he was still eased into it so to speak. For a villain like Big Boss, I feel his descent needs to be a sin that he unequivocally bears the full guilt for.

I did enjoy Ocelot's torture of Huey.

Like just for those moments you remember Ocelot has a character.

Then Kaz loses his shit and tortures Huey even more.

I actually enjoyed this as being the sin that pushed him across the line because it wasn't this big event or battle that did it. It was just a quiet decision made to use one of his own soldiers as a pawn, but one that was such a betrayal of what he had previously stood for.

It's not as climatic or bloody as the trailers told us, but a simple moment that speaks volumes.

Which makes the part where the game tries to sell this as some big heartwarming moment of Big Boss's faith on you and a message thanking the players but no, just no. Big Boss even gets a heroic send off of riding into the sunset.

This guy took an explosion to the face for him and they repay him by replacing his identity and making him a glorified target.

It doesn't matter if Big Boss says he's earned his own legend, no, this is a violation of a loyal soldier. The medic has NO say in this. And meta wise, the complete opposite message of MGS 2, that being Big Boss is the COOLEST THING EVER AND YOU SHOULD FORGET YOUR LIFE TO LIVE A FANTASY!!!

Sorry, sorry. Just needed to get this off my chest after 5 years of thinking of this.

Since you know me in the Three Houses forums, you may know how the violation of an identity is a huge berserk button for me.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 11th 2020 at 12:43:28 PM

I... somehow S-Ranked "Episode 0" in Phantom Pain...

...despite taking roughly 20-40 minutes to finish it (crawl crawl crawl), killing at least 7-10 enemies, and getting hit by the Man on Fire at least 4-6 times. But the result screen gave me a bonus, claiming I didn't let him attack me once when I was with Ocelot. It also says I only killed a single enemy despite having at least 4-5 confirmed headshots.

These drugs really aren't working fast enough.

EDIT: I am really not a fan of the RPG aspects they added since Peace Walker.

EDIT 2: The Afghanistan missions fun in spite of this. And my horse can now poop on command!

Edited by FOFD on Sep 2nd 2020 at 11:36:45 AM

Finally fought Quiet.

Do you keep her, or do you kill her.

keep. Killing her gives you nothing and robs you of the most brokenly useful companion in the game, as well as some of the best story moments

I kept her, but I feel dirty about it.

Don't worry. Kaz might be pissed off at you, but you'll grow to love her.

Something something ashamed, something something words and deeds.

What did you actually think of The Boss's ideals and words to Snake?

And on a separate note

The Boss: Kill me now. Do it.

Snake: thinks about it Nah.

The Boss: What the- zipping noise AAAAAH!

Kaz: She's coming to?

Kill the boss. Become the hero. Train your successor so that you, in turn, can become the villain and repeat the process.

Its good stuff.

Right, it’s a good thing that Solid retired after MGS 4

Raiden, doesn’t count as a student since Snake didn’t train him.

He learned from Snake all the same. Raiden walked in his footsteps time and again through VR training.

Death was David's only way out of the cycle.