Isn't this subjective/YMMV?: Polygon Ceiling

I'm more than willing to be the curator for this page. It's relevant to the main subject I'm curating, at any rate.

Troacctid => Precisely. Just because the topic can attract Complaining About Shows You Dont Like doesn't mean it's subjective.

I'm concur this is not subjective, this primarily an issue of wording the examples properly. Besides, at this rate every trope could be YMMV. I mean when you think about it, since everyone has their own personal biases, almost nothing is actually objective. It's really more sensical to just have some s0rt of consensus.

No, its not subjective. The series loses something in the transition from 2D to 3D. That is not subjective.

Whether or not it is a good or bad thing is subjective. A good deal of the "subjective tropes" are only called so in my opinion because people forget Tropes Are Not Good and Tropes Are Not Bad.

Villain decay is not subjective, a villain getting less dangerous overtime is not subjective, whether or not the decay is good or bad to the viewer is subjective.

IMO, there is subjectivity here, but it's not cut and dried. The objective part of it, the gameplay translation/transition, is true but you have other things coming into play to create the effect, such as the Nostalga Filter.

(I'd elaborate more later if pressed, headache making it hard to think.)

Its very subjective. I was literaly shocked when i found people sudgjesting some of the games here were examples Sonic's Dreamcast games in particular (they were fairly well received) Certainly YMMV just because of what it is.

I think you're misunderstanding the trope. It's not about games as a whole. It's not about how fun a game is. The best game in the world could have one element that doesn't translate from 2D to 3D right and that would be this trope. It's not the game as a whole that we're saying doesn't work. It's certain discrete elements.

You know, if there is a subjectivity to this trope, you can remove it from the description. If we leave it at game play transition from 2D to 3D, that will be just fine.

3D Zelda is a different beast in many ways than 2D Zelda. Combat is much easier in the 3rd dimension. 3D Metroid couldn't keep everything from 2D Metroid. There is your polygon ceiling, it can't be argued to exist. Ocarina Of Time, 3D Zelda and Prime, 3D Metroid, are the highest selling and most critically praised entries in their series. Tropes Are Not Bad. Sonic hit the polygon ceiling, Donkey Kong hit the polygon ceiling, their games are not as critically praised. Tropes Are Not Good.

True. At it's core, it's not about the games getting worse. It's just about mechanics needing to change for 3D. You can't say that 3D Sonic plays exactly like 2D Sonic.

So, basically, we just have to strip away the judgmental nonsense. Works for me.

Yep, and it should make your curating job much easier. It will also make it easier for the trope to get examples of things changing. It's easier to spot the differences between 2D and 3D than to figure out which ones are good or bad.

It looks like we've reached something of a consensus that this can stay objective if we clean it up and assign a curator(s). Is that about right?

Pretty much. That is, unless someone wants to make a crowner or something.

Wait, so how isn't this trope Subjective? When I see phrases like "better", "worse" or "loses something" that usually signals subjectivity.

edited 11th May '11 12:41:55 PM by captainpat

That's why we're trying to get rid of that judgmental nonsense: so that this trope don't turn into a Jumping the Shark retread.

The trope as it stands is a bit subjective, but that doesn't mean the subjectivity can't be removed (which I support).

We can make this entirely neutral and any series that made the jump from 2D to 3D? (probably ditch the name too) and the entry just lists changes not saying if they were good or bad changes.

So... just any series that makes the jump from 2d to 3d? If that the case then I'm fine with that but from reading the YKTTW that seem very different from the original intent.

The YKTTW was subjective as hell and Flame Bait. Beat the subjectivity out of it and it would be for any jump from 2D to 3D.

edited 11th May '11 1:16:12 PM by Raso

I can sort of see where you're coming from, but I think the more tropable bit of this is things that changed from 2D to 3D. Mechanics and what have you. The bits that are different are the interesting bits. Otherwise if we go with your suggestion it's just a dry list of games. Not really a trope.

I don't see how either case would be tropable. I know it's deals with sequels and prequels but is it really worth noting that two separate games have separate game mechanics as as well?

If you look at it that way, it would probably be possible to list any game that transitioned from 2D to 3D, sure. But focusing on things changing in that transition is probably going to produce higher-quality example listings because it prompts people to talk about what's different between the 2D and 3D versions, as opposed to just saying "Series X qualifies for this trope."

Well all elements in this trope are already is covered by other tropes like Camera Screw and such which are hardly unique to 2D to 3D transitions.

Every transition from 2D to 3D has some changes I am certain that people even hated Mario 64 for its many changes. (Which is the reason why a lot of people got excited with New Super Mario Bros.)

Making it completely neutral and listing common changes going from 2D to 3D and each series in it elaborating on specifics would be a pretty nice trope.

edited 11th May '11 6:47:42 PM by Raso

And that's what we want. A trope about the things that change going from 2D to 3D. No value judgements.

@ pat: We have a lot of tropes about adaptations. It's a very common thing to trope and highly tropable.

We already have that. It's practically at the start of the description.

edited 11th May '11 10:08:27 PM by DragonQuestZ