General Star Wars Animated Series

Frankly the way it's portrayed and talked about makes it seem like the Dark Side is meant to be a natural thing that's equal and opposite to the Light. I know that's not the intended idea but that's how it always came across to me.

Edited by Kostya on Feb 11th 2020 at 5:03:35 AM

I mean, it is. It’s there. The power is there to be accessed by anyone who wants to, but doing so is opening yourself up to all kinds of trouble.

Fandom likes to complain that there are no Dark Side users that don’t go full crazy, but that has always made sense to me. The Dark Side is bad for you, and it’s like a drug. The Sith say again and again that it’s more powerful than the Light Side, and they’re not wrong! It’s way more power for way less work and it feels so good. So they keep using it until they’re totally corrupted by it.

The Dark Side is a cancer.

It will turn you to shit no matter what if you majorly use it.

Well no, strictly speaking the Dark Side is not more powerful. However it is far easier to use and can allow you to become much more powerful in a short time. But a normal Force user can reach the same level. It's just going to take a much longer time, while requiring you to keep your emotions in check.

Exactly. More power for less work.

Well, cancer is a natural thing.

But the proper reaction to cancer isn't to allow tumors to grow until the number of cancerous cells break even with the number of non-cancerous cells. The proper reaction is to fucking cut the tumor out, and nuke the remainder with radiation and chemicals.

So yes, the Dark Side is a naturally occurring thing. And the proper response once it goes malignant is to fucking kill it before it kills everything.

Edited by TheAirman on Feb 11th 2020 at 7:00:10 AM

Perhaps my memory is foggy but I thought Lucas once claimed that The Dark Side was created partially through misuse of the Force. As in, the Force without anybody actively using it is not malevolent. However this seems to contradict some things in canon.

Isn't the Force based on the whole yin yang thing? Where one cannot exist without the other?

Well I always thought it comes off that way but supposedly it's not the case. The Dark Side is an aberration and Balance is achieved by eliminating it not making it equal to the Light.

That's part of what I was bringing up earlier, the philosophy of the force takes aspects from both that and Christianity but they clash with one another which just leaves the whole thing a muddled mess.

If the force was based more heavily on the Yin Yang aspect then the Dark Side wouldn't be inherently malignant and the Light Side would be as inherently corruptive in one didn't maintain balance between the two.

Edited by Kaiseror on Feb 11th 2020 at 7:47:01 AM

Yup. And Depending On Writer further muddles it. TFA was the first movie to mention a 'Light Side', I forget if TCW did so before TFA. Otherwise there was Living Force and Cosmic/Unifying, then the Dark Side being a cancer.

To a degree, I also see the Dark Side as flashier. Luke was able to use the Force in a balanced manner to stay zen (...mostly) in the throne room in Rot J, and was able to do something everyone else thought was impossible. But that's not as in-your-face as Force lightning.

x5 Are you perhaps thinking of this quote:

"One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the dark side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually, there was only one left, and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands of years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, become the master, and so on. But there could never be any more than two of them, because if there were, they would try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do. The Emperor was trying to get rid of Vader, and Vader was trying to get rid of the Emperor. And that is the antithesis of a symbiotic relationship, in which if you do that, you become cancer, and you eventually kill the host, and everything dies."

George Lucas, Myth and Men from Time

Edited by RussellStar5641 on Feb 11th 2020 at 2:30:40 PM

The Dark Side of the Force has always been the unpleasantness of the Force, the third definition of the dark. When people say this man has a dark side, they don't mean he has physical light and dark but rather that he has evil and malevolent aspect to his personality that he would rather keep hidden, hence dark side.

And what makes the Sith so vile compared to all the other Dark Siders is that they prioritize that unpleasantness and selfishness above everything else, treating it like it's a good thing. Friendships and loved ones are weakness in the Sith's eyes. You must be a complete sociopath if you want to obtain ultimate power.

The Nightsisters and Nightbrothers ultimately cared for each other, even if they are very nasty to each other at times. It's this compassion that allows them to survive as a community. It's how someone like former Sith like Maul and Vader can find peace in death whereas Tyranus and Sidious could not.

As for balance of the Force, this is my favorite diagram of them all◊.

The spilt started cause people can't seem to wrap their head around that the Dark side isn't just the Yang to the Force's Yin

The Force is already Yin and Yang in perfect balance

The Darkside is when that balance is disrupted and the emotions are taken in Excess

To an extent its Yin and Yang vs Wuji 'that which is not Yin or Yang'

Bioware latched onto the idea that the Sith and the Jedi are Yin and Yang to each other constantly positing that the Sith can be a force for good... as long as they are the PC.

Dooku is the most unsympathetic of the three apprentices cause he choose to be Evil of his own free will.

Maul was raised Sith and Anakin found himself in a pit with no escape.

I do think that's cause Dooku as the Fallen Hero aspect isn't played up nearly as much as. That and Dooku is kinda a bastard when you get down to it..

I mean so is Maul but Dooku willing to throw Grievous and Durge under the bus at the first opportunity.

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Feb 12th 2020 at 8:13:38 AM

Right they say that but I always thought the Light and Dark are portrayed more as a duality than a balanced state and a cancerous growth. There's a weird disconnect between what the writers say things are and how it actually comes across in universe.

The only time it comes off as Duality is when Lucas made the Jedi really Vulcan like IE The Jedi are logic and Reason and the Sith are Passion and Emotion

once you get the into the TCW characterization where the Jedi are normal fucking people

yay the Duality is lost cause its Normal functional person to complete fucking psycho

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Feb 12th 2020 at 8:37:45 AM

Being a sith is being a monster. We see countless examples of that.

I'd argue that The Clone Wars is one of the biggest things that implies it's more of a duality. The Mortis arc in particular portrays Light(Daughter) and Dark(Son) as opposed with a Balance(Father) that keeps them both in check. If what the creators say about the Force is true there should be no Daughter. Just an entity of Balance and some other being that's opposed to it.

Edit: And then of course there's the whole thing where the Jedi philosophy seems to be mapped to Order but the Sith is connected more to chaos. It comes off like an Order Versus Chaos thing.

Edited by Kostya on Feb 12th 2020 at 10:44:08 AM

Not quite true. Sith doctrine is rooted in pure selfishness. The idea of exalting being a prick over all else.

It's even written into their code.

I mean that's a very hedonistic way of viewing things. If I had to assign hedonism to something I'd pick chaos or anarchy over order.

I think where people are going astray here is in thinking that Dark = cancer. Yes, cancer is natural, but it isn’t supposed to be where it is. Dark IS. Dark naturally exists in opposition to Light. There’s no way to remove it. It’s part of the Force, always has been, and always will be.

Dark longs for power. It struggles to swallow the light. We see this in the Mortis trio. The Son kills the Daughter, and then the Father. Dark succeeds, destroys the Light, and then Balance is gone.

Dark will always exist, but Dark and Light in equal amounts is not Balance, because Dark is heavier than Light.

I thought it was Lucas that compared it to a cancer. Either way that still breaks the balance idea. Balance should be the Force just as itself. There is not Light, Dark, and Balance. There is just Balance/Light and Imbalance/Dark. At least that's what the writers say. I am arguing that the series contradicts their statements. If what they say is true the Daughter and the Father should be a single entity(the Mother?) with another constantly harassing it. Moreover when the Father says Anakin will maintain Balance after his death he clearly means keeping the Son and Daughter in check and not eliminating the Son like he should be doing if Balance is only maintained by removing the Dark side.

Edit: There's also stuff like Bendu in Rebels saying he's "in the middle" which implies that there's some kind of midpoint between Dark and Light that isn't inherently evil.

Edit 2: The artistic motif of the Prime Jedi's mural also implies some kind of balance between light and dark.

Edited by Kostya on Feb 12th 2020 at 1:01:49 PM

The Mortis Arc ends in tragedy with all members of the family dead. If anything, it showcases why a Balance Between Good and Evil will never end well.

As for the Bendu, his obsession with Balance is also his downfall since the Empire doesn't care about his neutrality. They just shoot him regardless because he happens to be in the way.

That's not really my point. I'm saying there's a disconnect between what the writers say about the nature of the Force and what those shows are displaying.

I think there is a subtle implication that trying to find a middle ground between good and evil doesn't really end well. In fact, being neutral in Star Wars tends end poorly if Mandalore was any indication.

Quite frankly, I expected the Knights of Ren to embody this insanity of trying to both good and evil in a misguided belief of being better than the Jedi.