Full Metal Alchemist General

One's alchemy seems to fetch a high price too.

I like how Roy didn't lose his eyes, just lost his sight, Truth is not unfair, Truth is actually the most fair. Roy did not willingly enter the gate and so lost something that could be returned fairly easily because he was forced to.

the question still remains though, what IS the value of a human soul? is it 1:1? how much gold is a soul worth? (not talking about the monetary value) how much steel is a soul worth?

However much God--er, I mean Arakawa, feels like at the time.

But really, the manga has never been consistent with the whole "Equivalent Exchange" thing, so souls are worth however much is convenient to the plot at any given moment.

Edited by Eldritcho on Feb 14th 2019 at 1:34:03 AM

Asking for a concrete numerical value is an exercise in futility. It also doesn't actually matter to the story. The only thing that matters is "a lot".

How do define "never consistent"?

Edited by LSBK on Feb 14th 2019 at 6:36:50 AM

Also isn't that against the point of the series? That ascribing a mathematical value to a human soul devalues it and lets people justify their actions having devalued the inherent value in human life?

Also FMA is a bit more of a idealistic series, I personally think the cast had suffered enough and that the major players had earned their happy ending, or were on their way to earning it by finally dismantling the issues in their nation.

Could somebody tell me the name of the song that plays when Marta tells Ed and Al about the true reason for the war in Ishbal(It's in episode 39 of 2003)? I've been searching everywhere and I can't seem to find it.

I just wanted to come here to see if there is anyone who still prefers the 2003 series over Brotherhood. I know at least a few people do, but it seems rare at this point.

I'm not going to go into a long diatribe about why I prefer 2003, I just wanted to see if anyone else here still cares at all, or if people don't care anymore. I'm not a fan of Brotherhood, so if it's just Brotherhood fans here then I guess there's nothing for me to talk about here.

Well, there's this guy who much prefers the 2003 anime to the 2009 one (though he doesn't say he prefers it to the manga).

He considers the 2003 anime much stronger in terms of directing and pacing ("The important scenes have a real emotional weight, there's a true director who knows how to involve the spectators and put them ill-at-ease"), and absolutely loves the whole second half. He also loathes Brotherhood's opening filler episode (like everyone I think), while 03's opening scene was one of his biggest television traumas when he was a kid. And to top it, he prefers the first anime's openings.

I see it as more of a 10 Commandments situation where I like both I just prefer the more recent (which I guess means that the live action film netflix films is the equivalent of that godawful Moses movie with Christian Bale

2003 has not aged well and I vastly prefer Brotherhood but I do think that the beginning of Brotherhood is weaker.

That said, manga FMA is best FMA.

"2003 has not aged well and I vastly prefer Brotherhood but I do think that the beginning of Brotherhood is weaker."

This is what I hear people say all the time. Even in videos for FMA 2003, Brotherhood fans will always show up and say how inferior it is to Brotherhood, and how the characters and storylines in Brotherhood are better. Its pretty annoying. I don't mind people preferring Brotherhood, but people always feel the need to compare them and say how much better they think Brotherhood is even in streaming episodes for 2003, which is frustrating.

And that's the problem for me. Its not just a case of "watch whichever version you prefer,and talk about it with fans of that version". You can do that with things like Ghost in the Shell, and Fate Stay/Night. But not Fullmetal Alchemist. FMA 2003 is my Fullmetal Alchemist, and the only one I'm really interested in. But there's no where to talk about it. At least not without Brotherhood fans shit talking it and saying how "inferior" they think it is.

I genuinely believe that 2003 is superior to Brotherhood in many ways. But I know that's a very unpopular opinion. I think it might be partly to do with the fact that I was never big on the whole "battle shonen" thing. Another unpopular opinion. I much prefer the darker, more serious, and more mature tone of the first series.

Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood isn't even battle shonen, fights are rarely anything but a means to an end and the whole series lacks the whole getting stronger to overcome foes aspect about it. 2003 Anime, I feel has some good points but it hammers too hard on the navel gazing and alienates too much of the cast to make Edward look good.

Edited by lycropath on Mar 17th 2019 at 4:33:00 AM

The manga does get very battle-shonen-y in the final fight. Before that… not so much.

And the finale is pretty much the culmination of everything along with bringing back a large assortment of characters most of which a soldier or combatant of some kind so of course it gets really actiony to really hammer in an ultimate climax.

Though I agree FM in general is not particularly “Battle Shonen”.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 17th 2019 at 4:40:48 AM

I liked the 2003 version pretty well but the climax was total bullshit. I'm not even talking about the alternate dimensions thing (though it does raise a lot of questions about the geography, Amestris' size and the location of Ishval). It's more how the whole thing completely ignores the characters' physical relations to each other and how they would logically react to the events that unfold around them. My memory is a bit hazy on the details but if I remember correctly the protagonists just stand there and let Dante do her thing without lifting a finger to stop her. But even that's nothing compared to how Gluttony gets turned into a mindless devouring beast in a room with tons of other characters, proceeds to attack exactly none of them and then just disappears without a trace while the climax plays out, just to later suddenly appear in a completely different room to attack the same Dante who was right next to him right before he peacefully disappeared earlier.

Though Brotherhood manages to be almost as bad with the white zombie things, aka the least threatening enemies ever. I lost track of all the times the protagonists would go off on long tirades and have extensive dialogues with each other while literally surrounded by the zombie things who just stand there just some centimeters from the protagonists without lifting a so much as a finger to hurt them for minutes on end. I can only assume that something got lost in the adaptation of the manga. I suspect that the comic had a bunch of panels with a bunch of speech bubbles where the heroes are fighting but the panels show the brief moments in between the attacking and defending, and that the show then took these panels and just copypasted them while the speech bubbles were playing out without thinking about the actions that should logically happen in the meantime.

Edited by Druplesnubb on Mar 17th 2019 at 12:56:30 PM

I would say that Brotherhood is a battle shonen, just a somewhat atypical one. In some ways it subverts tropes of the genre, and in other ways is beholden to them. Characters frequently using the philosopher's stones as power ups and convenient healing. Convenient last minute saves (example, Lan Fan showing up just in time to save the Elrics). Speeches about friendship, and teamwork, and never giving up. The main difference is that Brotherhood has a (relatively) tighter and more focused plot than a typical battle shonen, wrapping things up in a few dozen episodes instead of dragging things out for hundreds.

"My memory is a bit hazy on the details but if I remember correctly the protagonists just stand there and let Dante do her thing without lifting a finger to stop her."

Dante opened a gate to transport Ed to the other world, so he wasn't there. I don't remember every detail, but I do remember that. Also, Al was unable to move because his body was being eaten away by the philosopher's stone inside of him (long story).

"But even that's nothing compared to how Gluttony gets turned into a mindless devouring beast in a room with tons of other characters, proceeds to attack exactly none of them and then just disappears without a trace while the climax plays out, just to later suddenly appear in a completely different room to attack the same Dante who was right next to him right before he peacefully disappeared earlier."

I'm just going to post this link: https://youtu.be/c56sAUakLs0?t=30

Edited by Neveratall on Mar 17th 2019 at 8:21:16 AM

In a way gluttony killing Dante was kind of fitting given her never ending hunger for immortality

Speaking of which their’s always something thats bugged me about FMA. Well actually its not FMA itself its more of the concept of the seven deadly sins. Greed, Lust, and Gluttony cover a lot of the same territory as they are all based in excessive want. To me having all 3 feels a bit redundant.

So does Envy, really…

x4 Yeah Talking Is a Free Action is in full effect there, manga vs anime wise.

x3 There isn't really a lot of emphasis on the power of teamwork or friendship winning battles until the final battle which is as much a thematic triumph as it is a fight and the Philosopher's Stone itself is only used in battle by two non hommonculi characters in a straight fight (One that ended with a couple of secondary characters running interference). I would say Brotherhood is an action genre manga but its definitely not the same kind of battle shonen genre as say Naruto or Dragon Ball.

Edited by lycropath on Mar 17th 2019 at 6:07:24 AM

On the one hand, I can sort of sympathies with that, but on the other hand I have to say "what do you expect?" Seriously, I've never seen the 2003 anime so I can't comment on its quality, but it only exists because of the source material of the manga, which is the same thing that people got interested in. It really shouldn't be surprising that most people are more interested in that, and the anime that is a more faithful adaptation of that.

And though I've mostly have this thread to go by, people of the 2003 anime do seem more... defensive and unnecessarily aggressive about the quality than the other way around. Honestly, it seems like you're trying to low-key do that as well.

Edited by LSBK on Mar 17th 2019 at 12:36:45 PM

Okay I can't comment too much because it was a while since I saw the series but Gluttony attacking Alphonse doesn't really change things too much. Alphonse stops him and then he just disappears and ignores everyone else until suddenly he doesn't.

>I've never seen the 2003 anime so I can't comment on its quality, but it only exists because of the source material of the manga, which is the same thing that people got interested in. It really shouldn't be surprising that most people are more interested in that, and the anime that is a more faithful adaptation of that.

Being more faithful to the source doesn't automatically mean that something will be better or more popular. An example is the 1995 Ghost in the Shell movie, which was really not that faithful to the source, but is considered a classic, and the best adaptation of GITS. The tv series was a little more faithful (although still took liberties), but I've seen many people say the 95 movie is still better. Another example is Sailor Moon. The original anime was really popular, and had a lot of fans. It also changed a lot from the manga. A few years ago they made a more faithful adaptation, and the common opinion is that it wasn't as good as the first series, and it wasn't nearly as popular either.

The point is, there are sometimes when changing things from the source can actually be an improvement. Faithful doesn't automatically equal better. In the case of Fullmetal Alchemist, its kind of amazing how many times I've seen people who have said they never read the manga, but still prefer Brotheerhood (or even will only watch that version) because its more faithful to the manga. How does that make any sense? If you've never read the source, then why do you care which version is more faithful? Why judge them based on that?

"And though I've mostly have this thread to go by, people of the 2003 anime do seem more... defensive and unnecessarily aggressive about the quality than the other way around. Honestly, it seems like you're trying to low-key do that as well."

As I said, websites and threads about FMA will usually only talk about Brotherhood, so its hard to talk about the first series. Even in videos or threads specifically about 2003, you'll still commonly see Brotherhood fans showing up and shit talking 2003, and saying how they think Brotherhood is the superior version, and the only one worth watching. They'll say you can just skip 2003, or only watch the first half and then switch to Brotherhood, which as a fan of the first series I find insulting.

Just imagine if it was the other way around, and 2003 was the more popular series, and people said to skip Brotherhood. Most FMA threads would only talk about 2003, and if you go to a thread or video about Brotherhood, a bunch of people show up and say Brotherhood sucks and only 2003 is worth watching. Don't you think you would feel a little defensive? It honestly seems to me that Brotherhood fans are being "unnecessarily aggressive" because they can't just respect the existence of the first series, but have to go out of their way to say how they think its inferior to the version they like. This is something that has been going on for basically the past decade, and after so many years it gets pretty annoying constantly being told that the show I like is "inferior" and something you should just skip, or worse, just use to make the early storylines of Brotherhood look better.

As far as I'm concerned the 1995 movie was a trainwreck. It was such a bunch of faux-philosophical nonsense that I threw my remote at the screen in frustration.