The General D&D thread

Either way my race also has proficiency with longswords, so I'll replace mace or any other simple stuff with a longsword, so I can use my proficiency bonus.

Sorry but i need to vent about one of my players... I am starting to think (non-seriously for now) about kicking him from the group once the campaign is finished. He is regulary late to sessions (only 5-15min but consistently, even when we move back the session 30min on his request) and in the beginning i always lose some time because i need to make sure the players remember the important plot points from the last session (i say players but i only started doing it because i noticed he had trouble keeping up).

He still (ca. 7 sessions in) doesn´t know how to use his character sheet in Roll 20 and sometimes has trouble with the difference between his stat and the stat modifier (in the middle of a session i suddenly noticed the lvl 2 wizard has 22hp, turns out he added his con stat instead of the modifier after leveling up). The last time i helped him level up it took almost 40min and now when i asked him to level his character up as soon as possible (before the next session) he just told me he would do it when we next play....

This does not even touch his ingame play, but to be fair there he mostly just ignores most of his options and is not that comfortable with roleplay, not stuff worthy to kick him just annoying to me (seriously he has not added a single spell to his spellbook, not even misty step for which i gave him a scroll as loot after a big fight because he told me he choose the school of conjuration specificly for the teleportation spells)

Sorry for the rant this guy just extremly frustrated me today because he wanted to improve his Int and Dex at lvl 4 despite the Dex improvement doing nothing for his character (when asked why he picked Dex his argument was basicly "well i had to pick something"). I am convinced he did not even take a look at feats (Keen Mind or Fey Teleportation would have been perfect for what he said he wanted his character to be...)

That mostly sounds like a person who's having trouble learning the system, and who unfortunately the most complicated class to learn.

Like the thing where you have a score and a modifier that the score is displayed much more prominently on your character sheet but 95% of the time the modifier is the thing that actually matters is genuinely counterintuitive and I can imagine a lot of new players being confused by it.

So I won't really call that stuff worth kicking somebody over. Maybe to talk to him and if if he wants help?

Thats the thing, i already talked to him and helped correct his mistakes but the ones i mentioned are only the ones that happen repeatedly (also in our case the modifiers are presented about 3x as big as the stat). Honestly, i think he is just lazy and takes the route where he has to put in the least amount of effort. For example he always wants to hear when i offer him options and usually changes to one of them from his own first choice (he changed the Dex upgrad to Con), but i am worried about forcing players to make the characters i want instead of what they want, so i try to limit my influence in character-building.

If i end up kicking him (like i said im only non-seriously thinking of it) it wont be for those things, but his tardiness. 5min might not seem much, but it shows a disregard for my and the other players time (that stereotype about germans is true, we take tardiness as a personal insult. 5min early is punctual in german).

A lot of that stuff sounds like either new player problems or tech literacy problems, which can be solved if a person is willing to learn.

With lateness, well, there’s always the solution of telling him an earlier start time then everyone else, but you can generally only get away with doing that to players that are personal friends who recognise that their tardiness is a problem.

Yeah, to echo some of the above, I spent a an hour or so a piece between sessions to help two players port their character into the Discord based Avrae system (we use Roll 20 for the maps). It wasn't necessary, but it's helped quite a bit in their immersion in the game and speeding along RP and fights. These players have generally had a _willingness_ to learn both the technology and D&D, and it's been getting smoother with time.

With the lateness, you could try laying out fairly openly in a private call or PM your personal POV on being on time. If the player isn't German, or is a very laid back German, this probably might shock them to realize they've been innocently more rude than they thought.

To riff a little on the above suggestion, maybe schedule this person to arrive to "private" sessions 15-20 minutes early for you to help them with rules spells, strategy? Or maybe ask them for their help with something like encounter ideas, or an overarching plot for their character. (There's a cool Benjamin Franklin story where he notes he could win over people who used to be mild enemies by asking them for a favor like a loaned book. The act of showing yourself vulnerable and needing their help prompts people to look more kindly on you.)

Heck, it doesn't even have to be about those things forever, it could evolve into catching up with small talk over time while you focus purely on DM stuff. But if you give them a repeatable reason to be early to the main session, they either arrive on time for both, or miss the private one with you and arrive at the main session on time. Arriving late for both then opens the door to having a more honest talk about establishing expectations and boundaries, and you may have to make hard decisions like starting without them, and leaving them to catch up mid session while you autopilot their PC as an NPC if they're late for a combat encounter.

I'll be honest, I might just be laid back myself, but even considering kicking him for something as simple as being five minutes late or not quite grasping the actual system is absurd to me. It might be an American thing but shit happens, like, a lot. I've never been in a group that started completely on time, every time. It's not a job, it's a game.

If he wasn't showing up for thirty minutes or more every single time that's one thing, but "he shows up five to fifteen minutes late to our casual gaming sessions" is such a weirdly pedantic thing to cite as a problem.

Regarding not quite getting things: I'm assuming he's a new player, and the thing with 5e is that 5e is not simple. It's not. It's very rules heavy compared to a lot of tabletop RP Gs on the market. I've played quite a few and everyone acts like it's easy to understand for new players- it's not. There's a lot of sacred cows and weird design choices that will absolutely trip people up, and expecting people to have a very strong grasp on a complicated system like this after seven sessions isn't fair to anyone new to the system.

Like, if he's not new that's one thing, but in the politest way possible, you just sound really demanding if he is. Adding multiple overlays like Roll 20 to a relatively complex system and expecting him to have a grasp on it AND character building AND roleplaying AND all the tiny weird design choices on top of that is absurd. I've been playing D&D for at least five years and Avrae tripped me up bad when I started learning it, and I still don't know all the ins and outs of Roll 20.

• That is, of course, assuming he's new- but it certainly sounds like somebody new and bad with tech. If he's not, it's a different situation, but...

Never understood this concept of "tricking" people to be on time. They are not on time, they are still late, they only appear punctual to a third party. You are just giving them a free pass for not even showing the most basic level of politeness.

I feel i need to mention i am very good friends with the player for almost 7 years (probably not clear from how i talk, but you know how it is) and started dnd together 4 months ago, he knows my views on punctuality and in person he usually is. It would also not be possible to schedule "privates" before since we have a fixed time (2-2,5h) based on when he comes home from work (and give him time to eat, he set the time himself) and when people need to go sleep to not be zombies the next day. And it might be mean from me but at some point i did not know how the help with the sheet more. I can only say "your armorclass is in the upper middle of your sheet in the box shaped like a shield" or "you find your stats on the very left of your sheet" so many times before i want to strangle people, some things people just have to remember themself. Like you said the problem is probably his willingness to learn

If shit comes up that makes one more than 5min late one should give heads up as soon as possible. I know 5-15 minutes isnt much objectivly, but it is very noticable since me and the other player are there waiting every time on him (also admitedly it feels longer to us since we are usually early) and the consistency makes it clear its not an accident. Even in a hobby punctuality is important if other people are involved (might feel different if our sessions did not have fixed end points, so we cant just add the time at the end). And yes he is a new player and i´m a new dm. We both got our books at the same time 4 months ago, so i dont think my level of understanding would be that much higher than his.

Edited by Samaldin on Mar 6th 2021 at 1:25:30 PM

It comes down to if you view their lack of punctuality as a problem of them not caring or a problem of them being unable to manage them properly. If it’s a lack of desire then they’re just a dick, if it’s a lack of capability then it’s something you might accommodate.

I’m an ADD person who has extra focus trouble due to lockdown, so I’ve got a lot of sympathy for people with difficulty keeping everything running perfect right now even if I personally am very punctual (in my mind on-time isn’t scheduling to arrive 5 minutes early, it’s scheduling to arrive 5 minutes early in the event that your emergency extra travel time buffer is fully used up, if you travel to a place goes perfectly you should be more than 5 minutes early).

Obviously question, but have you worked out if it’s a screen thing? Some people read better with something oysical in front of them, if he’s such a person he could always print off a physical character sheet. I’d also presume you have other players in the group who are experienced? Enlist them into helping?

I like your on-time planing! Depending on the seriousnes of the event i usually plan to arrive between 10min (casual meeting with friends at the bar) and 1h (important professional meeting) early. He has something printed, but i dont know exactly what, did it on his own.

And sadly no, we dont have any experienced people in our group (or even know anyone with experience). We just decided end of last year dnd seems like fun, and started our noob group around christmas (they got the phb i got phb, dm guide, monster manual and the waterdeep module)

Ahhh, if you’re all new I understand why it’s particularly frustrating to have one person who doesn’t seem to be trying to learn properly.

4 out of 5 of my players are new to the game, but I’ve been playing different version of D&D since I was 10 (I’m now well into my 20s) and the one experienced player has been playing around 12 years, so for us it’s pretty easy to be the teaching ones for the group.

In the end the only actual solution to a player problem is to talk to the player, say that the fact that you’re having to constant teach and manage them is tiring for you and has a negative impact on your enjoyment, as them to work with you to find a solution.

Luckily such conversations work best with someone who is independently a friend, people who are just met through D&D at times have a negative reaction to such conversations.

Edited by Silasw on Mar 6th 2021 at 12:59:52 PM

When it comes to time management, there's also the simple matter that how you processes, for lack of a better word, 'time coordinates'.

Some people, when they're told "the meeting is at x o'clock" will, on almost instinctual level, factor in things like travel time or time to get ready and so their brain will, some time before x o'clock, start getting active and prod them about their upcoming commitment.

Other people however do not work that way and for them the x o'clock part of "the meeting is at x o'clock" is etched into their brain to the point that their brain doesn't even begin to get active until x o'clock actually rolls around.

I know, because my own brain works the latter way and I have to consciously tell myself "that means I should get ready and start paying attention to the time at x-1 o'clock, don't forget x-1 o'clock!" after someone tells me that the meeting is at x o'clock. And to be honest, doing that for important meetings is exhausting enough that I fully need my friends to be okay with me frequently being late to any kind of social engagement where time isn't a major factor (So... Going to a bar: Rob is often late. Going to a movie that starts at a set time: Rob is there over half an hour early).

As for players being slow to learn the rules... I get how frustrating that can be, but I also feel that you shouldn't get too frustrated with the person themselves. I learn rules for new systems very quickly and very well... A big part of that is that I have very broad TTRPG game literacy, because I started playing my first TTRPG when I was twelve and that's an unspecified number of years larger than twenty ago. Another part of that is that I learn a lot better reading from a book than having things explained to me.

And in my experience when you have one player struggling with the rules that much, it's usually (as is the case here) in an inexperienced group where everyone is learning from the book and the person who has genuine issues learning from a book keeps falling further and further behind because there's no one around to teach them the rules in a way that works better for them.

And also (and this is in general, not aimed at you specifically) as a DM you generally shouldn't have to ask members of the party about stats like AC, because it's a relatively static number and depending on how often you have combat, it should come up a lot. A DM doesn't have to know all the characters' stats by heart, but players' AC is something they should have at hand for themselves, just like the group's passive perceptions, because constantly asking the players just slows the game down.

You're not playing in a D&D Podcast, there's no audience you need to remind of the character's stats, so there's no need to keep asking the players whether an attack hits their character. After a couple of fights everyone at the table should have an idea whether a certain results hits a character or not and if a DM keeps asking the players whether attacks hit that reinforces the notion in the players that AC is something that they have to look up every time they're attacked rather than something that they just need to know.

But that's more a general gripe about how the popularity of D&D content on Twitch and Youtube, while really freaking awesome, is teaching new D Ms some habits that are necessary when you're making content and just a drag on the speed of the game when you're playing at home.

In Roll 20 I simply have everyone’s HP, AC and Initiative modifier attached to their character models, that way the only thing we’re opening character sheets for is attack rolls/spell descriptions. It means we can all easily see what’s happening to someone’s HP. It also lets my players get a feel for monsters health, as while they can’t see the number for each monsters HP they can see the HP bar reducing.

I should probably attach spell slot numbers to the magic users models too, as that’s one of the more annoying things for us to track.

Being late to a bar meeting or other social get together doesn't hold up everyone else's time though. The rest can already drink and talk. You're the one missing out. Being late to a game delays the game for the whole group. Everyone having to wait on you makes it rather selfish of the tardy player. I understand being put off by this. But I'm also Swiss and if anything, we're even bigger on punctuality than Germans.

Edited by Antiteilchen on Mar 7th 2021 at 2:02:58 PM

Note to self: invisibility won't save you if you roll 1s.

Minor update: talking works. I messaged and later talked with the Warlock player, and it turns out he'd been confused about the class features I noticed he wasn't using. He'd thought the 3 extra cantrips from the Tome pact were still just two in total, but from a different list than the Warlock's. He should hopefully take the time this week to choose the missing 3 and have a more rounded repertoire. They're mid dungeon now so I don't expect him to add any new ritual spells, but here's hoping.

On a different topic, I've used this random magic item generator for ideas, and now I understand why it sometimes brings up a "quick attunement" property that reduces attunement time to 1 minute. Two of my players just reached the 3 attunement magic item max and hit a rough spot where they needed to switch out weapons for story reasons, and they couldn't really take a short rest.

Now I'm imagining a wizard making some kind of "Attune in Case of Emergency" type of magic item, like a Ring of Feather Fall on the topmost floor of a tall tower, or Necklace of Water Breathing (or Walking) for crew in case of a ship sinking.

I went looking for players and found a game instead. Still working on my campaign though.

I am contemplating some of the DND beyond subscription services, any thoughts from you folks?

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Mar 8th 2021 at 6:14:33 AM

Mixed response:

I've had a D&D Beyond Master subscription for nearly a year now and it's great if you're a DM. I can share all the official content I own on D&D Beyond with my players and I can make an endless cavalcade of character sheets for NP Cs in my world.

However, getting a Hero tier subscription is largely pointless (as a Free user you're not missing anything essential) and for the Master tier subscription you should only really consider getting it if you either have purchased any official content on D&D Beyond or plan to purchase it for your campaign, because getting to share that content with your players so that they have access to it in your campaign is the primary benefit of a Master Tier subscription.

And if you're a player there really isn't any added value to subscribing at all, since you can make up to six characters at any given time on a free account and it's unlikely that you'll be playing in six campaigns at the same time, let alone more.

Rob: Hmm. Thanks for the info man. Since I am looking at DM'ing here in the near future or at least one of a few DM's now we have resource-strapped players that sounds like a good option to me.

Either way Beyond is way better at book organization than Roll 20 is. No idea why I bought Theros in the Roll 20 store...

How does Beyond compare to Roll 20 when it comes to running your own adventures? Are there as many free assets and is it as easy to import your own maps from elsewhere?

D&D Beyond isn't a VTT, so unless you're doing purely theater of the mind the whole session, you pair D&D Beyond with a VTT such as Roll20 or Astral, or in an in-house game.

TBH, there's no point to buy anything on roll20. You can just follow an online guide for optimization, copy and paste from other online resources and call it a day.

True. I bought Theros on it because I didn't know how Beyond worked, and I regret it because it's really unintuitive to find the books you buy.

Yeah, Roll 20 works fine without buying anything. I know a lot of people who just use physical books, even when playing online. Though that often leads to a lot of copy-pasting from not-entirely-legitimate resources, it's a compromise.