Christian tropers, join together!

I have a hard time sympathizing with American Christians' persecution complex here. It's barely one step behind white persecution complex. The country is already bending over backwards to appease and validate you.

Being taught at school is not the same thing with being forced to believe.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Jan 28th 2019 at 7:23:04 AM

@R Alexa21th

It's a dicey issue, because it's a belief that many Christians hold onto. And if you are advocating the government make it mandatory that they teach their own version of it, then there is the problem.

Dismissing why people would have issues with as having a persecution complex is frustrating.

And again, some state governments are requiring their public schools to teach parts of the Bible. Your thoughts?

Also:

You can teach both beliefs, if you want to, but proper education must be taught.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Jan 28th 2019 at 7:51:58 AM

@Physical Stamina

I saw the issue on the subject, and it turns out it's Bible electives. So, these things are not mandatory classes but bills are mandated to let them be taught, and I know that Aaron Mc Williams, one of the legislative people, actually would be open to the idea of the Quran being taught, so it's not a Christian only thing. There could be other faith books that could be taught as electives in school, which I am not against.

I do think if you are of a different faith taking different classes about the Bible, Quran, etc. The school should inform parents, so that they can know more about what is being taught.

Edited by firewriter on Jan 28th 2019 at 7:53:30 AM

Religious organizations, private social clubs, out-of-school Bible circles etc. can all have whatever weird membership rules and curriculums they wish as far as I'm concerned, but if you want to provide the kind of social service that a school does, you gotta play by the rules.

Kids have the right to get a decent education regardless of who their parents are, and I don't see why things like blatant homophobia or pseudoscience should be anymore accepted in a private school than in a private hospital or whatever.

Just my two cents on that.

Yeah I feel like complaining about schools not being bigoted or not catering to a very specific branch of Christianity's views on Bibical Literalism is not the end of the world.

Mostly because I think many people don't see the possible consequences of the government trying to influence curriculum for a private religious institution.

Edited by firewriter on Jan 30th 2019 at 8:45:16 AM

...the children get a proper education that isn't dictated by strict adherence to the Bible's teaching? ¡Qué horror!

Or wait, is this one of those terrible slippery slope arguments in which "If the gov't gets a say in this thing, then they'll get a say in everything!" that has no basis in reality?

They see the consequences of the government not doing that. You just need to look up the news.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Jan 30th 2019 at 8:42:33 AM

@R Alexa21th

And the news has become tabloid and sensationalist in handling the facts. Public schools that are government monitored and still are crappy hellholes.

@Physical Stamina

Because we have seen the government try to oversight Christians schools before.

https://world.wng.org/2018/09/hard_tests_for_china_s_christian_schools

Edited by firewriter on Jan 30th 2019 at 9:52:33 AM

Here in the US of A, the problem is that many parents try to deny their children knowledge about subjects that they (the parents) find objectionable based solely on dogmatic or otherwise ideological nonsense. Parents that use private/religious/homeschooling to avoid those subjects are doing a great disservice to their children. Efforts to curb these issues, particularly holding all forms of education to reasonable universal standards, should not be compared to religious suppression in a dictatorship.

@Ghostninja 109

The problem is that it's one group of people's judgement concerning how another group of children should be taught. I do believe people are overstepping their boundaries in this case. People keep saying that creationists should keep creationism in their schools, but now they ironically doing the same thing in the name of the children.

Edited by firewriter on Jan 30th 2019 at 11:08:08 AM

@Article: Okay, first, China's government is not our government, so bringing them up as an example of what can happen here is nonsensical. Second, our government isn't trying to shut down these schools; just change what they teach. The fact that you even thought that these examples were comparable in any way strikes me as nothing less than pure libertarian governmental paranoia.

And third, and I keep saying this, many state governments are attempting to do the opposite in their public schools, enforcing a curriculum that is more centered around the Bible. One state (I forget which) even tried to have the Bible taught as a historical document. A far cry from an "elective" (which students would probably be expected to take anyway, with grave social consequences if they don't). Yet when it comes to "government overreach", your problems with it seem to only go one way.

Furthermore, this isn't a matter of "they're a private school so they get to do what they want". My own private high school still had a proper curriculum just like any other school from what I can remember. There is no reason that a private Christian or Catholic school cannot do the same.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jan 31st 2019 at 6:01:55 AM

Agreed, because they shouldn't get to do whatever they want.

As I see it, if you're running a private school which kids go to instead of a public one, you've effectively agreed to do part of the governments job for them (i.e. providing a decent education), and that means following their standards.

I try to be pretty lenient about how others live their lives - sometimes a bit more than some people think I should be - but I have limits. It's "you do you", not "you do whatever bullshit you feel like to your kids".

Fixed it.

Edited by Corvidae on Jan 31st 2019 at 3:21:57 PM

I meant to say "isn't".

@Corvidae

Problem is there is a difference between monitoring a private school for if they are taking care of children right. And we have a standards when it comes to the criteria for a private school to run. However, when you want to change curriculum to be based on public school then you are running into first amendment issue, due to the fact that they are religious.

@Physical Stamina

A lot of schools would shut down rather than be forced to change their curriculum. It's not a win in the end for anyone, despite saying it's what best for children's education.

Edited by firewriter on Jan 31st 2019 at 10:02:05 AM

No one's stopping them from reading the Bible from the comfort of their own homes. This has nothing to do with first amendment rights.

Shutting down willingly because you don't want to do what you're told isn't the same as being shut down by the government for teaching the wrong thing. It's entirely on the school board at that point.

Also are you just not gonna address the whole "state governments enforcing Bible-focused curriculums" or...?

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jan 31st 2019 at 10:04:23 AM

@Physical Stamina

People go to religious schools, due to the fact that they are different from the ones in public schools when it comes to what they offer. Your beliefs shouldn't be closed off only in your home.

The Bible in the way it is handled in a public school background is different from the way it's handled in a Christian school one. From what I read, the elective Bible classes are trying to make balanced language.

Edited by firewriter on Jan 31st 2019 at 10:05:30 AM

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't mean literally only be Christian at home; rather, you can believe what you want where you want. But this has nothing to do with what should be taught in schools in the first place.

These aren't "elective" classes, as I've said. Some of these states are having or trying to have the Bible taught as a historical document. Which are usually mandatory in any public school.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jan 31st 2019 at 10:08:58 AM

@Physical Stamina

The thing is that these schools are private, and technically not for the general public.

With the "historical document" thing, we have been seeing a lot of archaeology in Israel that has shown that there is historical content. I know some don't see it as historical, but I know why some people do think it has some merits for being historical. On the other hand, when I hear these stories I wonder where and how they are going to teach the Bible.

Edited by firewriter on Jan 31st 2019 at 10:30:07 AM

1. As said, being "private" has nothing to do with it. My private school taught evolution just like any public school would. A private school is still a school, and as such, has a duty to give its students a proper education.
2. There's really no historical basis for things Moses parting the Red Sea or frogs falling from the sky.

@Physical Stamina

Secular private schools and even Catholic ones are different from Protestant ones.

Also in terms of historical documents. If it was a religious class concerning Judaism, the influence of the Old Testament would be important.

https://religionnews.com/2019/01/18/trumps-evangelical-base-has-shrunk/

It looks like Trump's evangelical base seems to have shrunk, so their trust in him is not unwavering as people depict it as.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/donald-trumps-former-pastor-says-he-never-saw-him-in-church-advises-he-read-gospels.html?fbclid=IwAR2ZHZ-IQ5NhlQXV6uv6pwHrSFlO-PfSVxhBI9LTN0ta-HTW25ozWHYucgM

Also I knew it. His pastor gets it right about Trump's lack of faith.

Edited by firewriter on Jan 31st 2019 at 11:50:00 AM

Just because a private school follows X denomination of Christianity, that doesn't make it right for teachers to withhold information from their students.

@Physical Stamina

Whenever a lot of evangelical Christians schools tackled evolution, they don't withold it. In fact, I think it's incorrect to say they withold it because it's more accurately are more critical of how secular view it.